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The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

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Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#191

Post by sologoub »

ryandrake wrote: post #94
sologoub wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On "trust fund children", the lifestyle of a few loud examples is likely painting an unrepresentative picture to the masses. I'd love to see some real stats or study on people who inherited substantial wealth. On one hand, society seems to argue that inherited privilege perpetuates itself, which means that wealthy offspring are succeeding, sometimes despite their abilities. On the other, we have the stereotype of "tr…

It depends on your definition of success. The offspring of the wealthy tend to remain wealthy, regardless of whether or not they "contribute to society". If you consider wealth perpetuation success then they are succeeding.

The original post talks about money and how non-earned income streams carry a stigma, so for relevancy to the discussion, success is accumulation and maintenance of wealth.

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#192

Post by knieveltech »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #184
industriousthou wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the whole idea is that if people have their basic needs met, they'll be able to be more creative and productive. Homeless people are the perfect counter example.

No. Homeless people almost all have mental illness, substance abuse problems, or some combination of the two. I'm not seeing why you and the OP think they are representative of the general population in any way. They are, pretty much by definition, people who are too messed up to function in society.

You couldn't be more wrong here. Have some facts:

https://www.nlchp.org/documents/Homeless_Stats_Fact_Sheet

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#193

Post by kitd »

philipkglass wrote: post #43

That threat has many thinkers entertaining the idea of a universal basic income, a guaranteed living wage paid by the government to anyone left out of the workforce. But McAfee believes this would only make the problem worse, because it would eliminate the incentive for entrepreneurship and other activity that could create new jobs as the old ones fade away. Others question the psychological effects of the idea. “A u…

What of people receiving Social Security, pensions, inherited wealth, royalties from patents and copyrights, rents collected on real estate...?

Earned income is directly or indirectly linked to how you perceive society values you, and therefore your self-esteem. Pensions have been earned previously, royalties earned by your intellect, even inheritance is earnings by your family. A life on social security is known to lower self-esteem. Most recipients are desperate to work.

The UBI undercuts this to some extent. It may be part of the answer, but it is only a small part IMHO.

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#194

Post by pygy_ »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #179
pygy_ wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the surplus horses that bootstrapped the pet food industry when Ford democratized cars...

They got jobs in the glue factory. ;)

Parallel career paths!

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#195

Post by Bombthecat »

nojvek wrote: post #183
gozur88 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If that were true why do people still work 40+ hour weeks when they could be earning enough to live on just 15? There are all sorts of practical reasons why it's difficult to work 15 hours every week, the biggest of which is employers don't want to hire you. If you're flipping burgers, sure, but it's pretty rare to find that arrangement for a professional job.

When everyone working 40 hours they are getting paid a lot more. They can afford high rents and mortgages. Even as a software engineer I struggle with rent and don't leave much for savings. When a robot is doing low skilled jobs and education is insanely expensive like it is now, the gap is inevitable. Capital buys AI allowing one person to do the work of many and reap the rewards of it. America is built on this very…

Not only America, the whole world

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#196

Post by rifung »

masonic wrote: post #154
shams93 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly we could have a society oriented around the arts and sciences, pure creativity and discovery instead of bullshit jobs we could put the pedal to the metal in human freedom and innovation.

Do you see much "creativity and discovery" coming out of present-day homeless shelters and encampments?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but do homeless people fit the description since I'd think they still have to spend time begging?

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#197

Post by Bombthecat »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #163
roryisok wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not against Universal Basic Income, but there are some things about it which worry me, and which don't seem to come up very much in these discussions. leverage If we're all on basic income, we no longer have any leverage if our "wages" are reduced. The ruling classes can decide to drop the amount we earn, and there's not much we can do about it. Sure, we can "vote", but we can't strike, which is a far more powerf…

> but we'll almost certainly see a drop in the number of young people attending college, since there's no "need". More likely the opposite. Making $12K/year sucks. You can make $12K/year + 17K/year by flipping burgers, but that still sucks. Much better to go to college and then make $12K/year + 70K/year. And a UBI allows more people to do that because it reduces the risk of quitting a bad job to go to school.

The jobs for that would still be not there...

So, why go to school?

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#198

Post by e12e »

Bombthecat wrote: post #197
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we'll almost certainly see a drop in the number of young people attending college, since there's no "need". More likely the opposite. Making $12K/year sucks. You can make $12K/year + 17K/year by flipping burgers, but that still sucks. Much better to go to college and then make $12K/year + 70K/year. And a UBI allows more people to do that because it reduces the risk of quitting a bad job to go to school.

The jobs for that would still be not there... So, why go to school?

Why do you read hn? Is part of the motivation to learn something new?

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#199

Post by e12e »

laughfactory wrote: post #132

The problem with UBI is inflation. Give everyone another $1000/month (or whatever) and all you've done is make every existing dollar in the economy worth less.

Make the UBI micro-adjusted (month-to-month) for inflation based on a consumer index - and so indirectly tax passive capital (which is only earning meager interest)?

Re: The AI Threat Isn’t Skynet – It’s the End of the Middle Class

#200

Post by Terr_ »

philipkglass wrote: post #71
zeteo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What of people receiving Social Security, pensions, inherited wealth, royalties from patents and copyrights, rents collected on real estate...? Not exactly the definition of the creative class is it?

Before governments started heavily funding scientific research in the 20th century, most basic science was done as some wealthy person's hobby. Of course there were far more aristocrats who were interested in using their moneyed leisure to (e.g.) race horses than to experiment with electricity or identify new insect species, but some were driven by curiosity. (If you remember the Web in the 1990s, there was also a lo…

> most basic science was done as some wealthy person's hobby

Also "patronage" systems, where wealthier people would support not-so-wealthy scientists and artists. Presumably the patrons derived some social benefit (or personal enjoyment) from being involved in the broader work.

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