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De-Googleify Internet

degooglisons-internet.org

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Re: De-Googleify Internet

#191

Post by cortesoft »

sedachv wrote: post #183
cortesoft wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the public doesn't care for a good reason; no one has articulated a realistic, tangible cost to quality of life caused by letting Google track you. Lots of people talk about it being 'creepy' and dreaming up possible scenarios where it WOUDLD be costly, but for most people, the costs simply aren't actually felt. I am trying to think about it for me personally, and I can't come up with a single time that Googl…

> Seriously, though; how is my life negatively impacted (in actuality, not hypothetically), in a way that I can notice the difference, by letting Google track me? People have lost their freedom because their Google search history was used against them in court: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2006/02/subpoenas-and-your-pri... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/01/csi-google-winnin... http://www.oddee.com/item_9893…

Right, again, I am not saying that there aren't cases of people being harmed; however, none of those cases resonate with me because it is hard to imagine a situation where I would be harmed.

Of course, I can imagine some crazy set of coincidences that lead to be being falsely accused of a crime I didn't commit, and then by more coincidences having my random search history make me look more guilty. I am sure that will probably happen to somebody, and it will totally suck and be unfair.

The chances of it happening to me, however, seem very low; much lower, for example, than dying in a car crash when I drive to the store. I know there is a non-zero risk of dying in a car crash when I drive to the store, but it is low enough that I take the risk every week in return for the trade-off of getting groceries.

The risk of a random search of mine coinciding with a false crime I am accused of seems low enough that it won't change my behavior with how I use google.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#192

Post by KirinDave »

pierre_d528 wrote: post #164
KirinDave wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want ideology. I want tangible results that will improve the freedom, privacy and safety of the western world. Quite frankly, Google does more for this right now than any 3 open source competitors to gmail do, combined. Open source is irrelevant in most fields of user-facing software because they have insisted on being irrelevant . And any time a group forms a structure to do better, they're ceaselessly atta…

The cloud is going back to mainframes (e.g. Chromebook). Kay and 2.8MB system (Squeak). TCP/IP in 160 SLOC (Ian Piumarta). You mix Open source and Free software. Go have a real degree first (real science like physics), then maybe go back to computing. Cannot catch up with the 70s!

No one cares about Squeak anymore. We have browsers.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#193

Post by JBiserkov »

dao- wrote: post #44

> The increasingly centralized online services provided by sprawling giants like Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, or Microsoft (GAFAM) pose a threat to our digital lives. Curious that they don't talk about browsers. Your browser sees everything and knows everything it wants to know about your online life, it's arguably the most sensitive piece of the puzzle. All major browsers except Firefox are owned by "GAFAM."

An important point. I've switched to Firefox (with uMatrix) for this very reason.

I can't yet bring myself to stop using Google. But I make a deliberate effort to not use their search when I don't have to:

- when I know exactly when I'm going, I rely on bookmarks and the browsers history or just type the URL in full.

- when my destination is a deep URL I use the method above to navigate to the website's homepage, and search using the builtin search (Wikipedia, IMdB).

- when all else fails, I Google.

The small decrease in productivity is more than made up by the warm feeling I get inside.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#195

Post by dpark »

divbit wrote: post #154
dpark wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably the result of using a VPN. Google undoubtedly knows that lots of accounts registered through VPNs are spammy. I just registered billyjiminy123@gmail in a private browsing session and didn't get prompted. I even sent an email without being prompted for verification.

/s/phone number/ip

Yes, Google can track my ip. I guess you should browse through tor if you're this worried about tracking.

Google tracks IPs like Amazon tracks shipping addresses. It's kind of hard to deliver what you've requested if they don't have your address.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#196

Post by LordFrith »

pfranz wrote: post #74
tomphoolery wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is signing up for an account really that big of a deal to you?

Pinterest and Twitter really bug me. I usually hit Pinterest when doing a google image search looking for a product page to buy something. By hitting Pinterest I'm clicking through to the product page (which I would have preferred if that was my result instead), so it's not much different to me than blogspam. I really liked the idea of Pinterest and could see myself browsing and maybe eventually creating one, but the…

You can use Twitter's website to search Twitter without being logged in.

Go to

https://twitter.com/search

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#197

Post by cortesoft »

bad_user wrote: post #148
cortesoft wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the public doesn't care for a good reason; no one has articulated a realistic, tangible cost to quality of life caused by letting Google track you. Lots of people talk about it being 'creepy' and dreaming up possible scenarios where it WOUDLD be costly, but for most people, the costs simply aren't actually felt. I am trying to think about it for me personally, and I can't come up with a single time that Googl…

They can change your perception of anything, leading you to buying stupid shit you don't need, or to voting for somebody that doesn't protect your interests. And any piece of knowledge is dangerous in the right context. This is usually felt more strongly by minorities. You're actually privileged if you're a straight, white, middle class male, but even so you can end up being harassed and hurt for who you are. Have yo…

A network of informants that feed information to a police state that harasses you based on that information is objectively horrible.

I think the connection of that police state to Google tracking your search and browsing history is a bit tenuous, however. Sure, if that police state existed and I lived in it, then Google's trove of information would certainly be useful to it. If I begin to believe the state that I live in is becoming that police state, I will certainly curtail my Google searching.

Of course, you might say, "But wait! You might not live in a police state now, but if your current state changes to become one, they might use your historical search history from before the rise of the police state to persecute you!"

Yes, this is true. However, they could also use my many public things I have said against me. I have said and written many things that a police state might find dangerous, and persecute me for. I can't possibly live my life trying to avoid creating any record of my life that a possible future police state could use against me. That would be impractical and possibly unfeasible. If I live my life like that, I would be living as if I already lived in a police state by my own choice. That seems counter productive.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#198

Post by deadbunny »

cortesoft wrote: post #191
sedachv wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seriously, though; how is my life negatively impacted (in actuality, not hypothetically), in a way that I can notice the difference, by letting Google track me? People have lost their freedom because their Google search history was used against them in court: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2006/02/subpoenas-and-your-pri... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/01/csi-google-winnin... http://www.oddee.com/item_9893…

Right, again, I am not saying that there aren't cases of people being harmed; however, none of those cases resonate with me because it is hard to imagine a situation where I would be harmed. Of course, I can imagine some crazy set of coincidences that lead to be being falsely accused of a crime I didn't commit, and then by more coincidences having my random search history make me look more guilty. I am sure that will…

So, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#199

Post by brilliantcode »

bad_user wrote: post #148
cortesoft wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the public doesn't care for a good reason; no one has articulated a realistic, tangible cost to quality of life caused by letting Google track you. Lots of people talk about it being 'creepy' and dreaming up possible scenarios where it WOUDLD be costly, but for most people, the costs simply aren't actually felt. I am trying to think about it for me personally, and I can't come up with a single time that Googl…

They can change your perception of anything, leading you to buying stupid shit you don't need, or to voting for somebody that doesn't protect your interests. And any piece of knowledge is dangerous in the right context. This is usually felt more strongly by minorities. You're actually privileged if you're a straight, white, middle class male, but even so you can end up being harassed and hurt for who you are. Have yo…

Speaking of 1984....every few paragraphs I find myself pausing, because it feels a lot like our current world in some sense and what our future will inevitably become.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#200

Post by cortesoft »

deadbunny wrote: post #198
cortesoft wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, again, I am not saying that there aren't cases of people being harmed; however, none of those cases resonate with me because it is hard to imagine a situation where I would be harmed. Of course, I can imagine some crazy set of coincidences that lead to be being falsely accused of a crime I didn't commit, and then by more coincidences having my random search history make me look more guilty. I am sure that will…

So, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

I wasn't trying to say that at all. I am all for limiting the government's ability to subpoena or access data collected by companies about us. If we allow the government to use wide nets to try to catch criminals, they are going to catch innocent people, and that is bad.

What I am saying is that on an individual level, the risk seems low that my using google is going to end up in a bad situation for me.

It is all about which options I am choosing between. When you ask me "Is it better to allow the government to collect information about everyone, and then use that to target suspicious individuals they find in that information, or is it better to limit that data collection and risk possibly missing some criminals?", then my answer is it is better to risk missing some criminals versus most likely harassing and possibly arresting innocent people because of false positives in the massive data collected.

However, if you ask me "Is it better for you, as an individual, to use google services and let them collect data about your, or is it better to avoid google completely", then the answer to me is to use google. The direct risk to me is low enough for me to make the trade off.

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