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Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

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Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#191

Post by jonathankoren »

Dove wrote: post #157
jonathankoren wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment hinges on the idea that exploitive labor practices do not exist. Allow me to make the prediction that you also don't believe that a market for lemons exists. I also, will go so far as to say that you actually no real connection to this, but rather are spouting off about abstract ideals and philosophy from your upper middle class existence, rather than actually being informed about the actual reality of t…

If Walmart engages in wage theft and is then sued for it, that sounds to me like the law works. Unless the penalties aren't enough to resolve the issue or something, that doesn't sound like an ongoing injustice - and at any rate, sounds like a problem for the courts, not the public. Sorting that sort of thing out fairly is their job, and they're surely going to be more thoughtful about it than angry internet mobs. If…

The benefit of the subsidy is Walmart because they can pay less.

Having a job and being stuck on charity is not the system working as designed. A system working as designed wouldn't need charity at all, and certainly would be needed for those that are working and are still indigent.

I really find it odd that you think paying more would be "taking from the poor to give to the poor". Walmart and the Walton family are extremely profitable and wealthy. They can easily absorb the the cost with negligible real impact. They could even start by not paying a stock dividend.

The question isn't about some teenager. It's about the person that isn't. It's about the person working two or three jobs. You can't say that Walmart benefits the poor when they famously pay just enough to shop only there.

I suggest you get out of your bubble, because the people I know that work at Walmart, Dollar General (do you even know that store?) are heads of households. These people are screwed. Not just by Walmart but by the entire economy.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#192

Post by randomdata »

manicdee wrote: post #160
randomdata wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is because just as we have seen here, they are told by labour advocates that fair compensation and room for negotiation are a good thing? Since a union takes both of those away, if fairness and freedom are good, one can only conclude that a union is bad. That's why I found the use of the parent's words so interesting.

How does a union take away fair compensation and room for negotiation?

> How does a union take away fair compensation

Fair compensation is the result of many actors all competing in a market without restriction. This is often bad, as when competition is fierce, those many actors will drive down value to almost nothing, leaving low pay, willingness to do dangerous acts, etc.

The union improves on fair compensation by setting terms that the people must follow. No longer fair, but a much better situation for employees.

> room for negotiation

You can always try it out for yourself. Find a unionized job, sell yourself to the bosses, and then clinch it with a sweetheart offer of $10/hr less than everyone else is being paid. See how far you get and report back to us. Something tells me you'll soon realize that your negotiating room is gone. And that's a good thing!

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#193

Post by ethbro »

randomdata wrote: post #64
darpa_escapee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

> I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are free to move on when it doesn't work.

I would argue that this is where the lack of fairness stems from. In every rural small town I've visited, Walmart is effectively a monopoly.

They're backed by a capital-intensive and incredibly efficient logistics network, and they've leveraged that to put local competition out of business. Consequently, they're the only employer in their industry in that town.

Sure, you could get a job doing something else (if the town has a 'something else'), but that still means there are going to be a large number of jobs controlled by Walmart without competition. And that distorts the local labor market via the disparity in power.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#194

Post by ethbro »

nradov wrote: post #181
yomly wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It suddenly occurred to me that the idea of enslaving a class of people under the promise of the "American Dream" is the modern rehash of when the British would put Indian soldiers in the vanguard and promise any who survived immediate promotion to officer rank. The dream of life-changing remuneration motivated the soldiers to fight, meanwhile the British seldom, if ever, had to pay out. NOTE: I cannot remember where…

This wasn't unique to India but the British army did use what they called a "forlorn hope" as the first wave in attacking a fortress. Most were expected to die, but the survivors were often promoted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forlorn_hope

As exploitive as it sounds, given that someone had to attack in the first wave at least this seemed to match the rewards with the risk?

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#195

Post by randomdata »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #71
randomdata wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they could negotiate for fair compensation. What, exactly, is unfair about the current compensation? Walmart pays exactly what they and the employee agreed to at the onset of the employment agreement. Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all. I really don't know how you can get any more fair than that? Everyone equally has the ability to decide what works for them and are fr…

> Those who couldn't reach an agreement have do not provide work for Walmart at all This is completely untrue. There are a lot of people who need to work to eat and pay rent. Often they're backed into a corner where there's literally no other jobs available than Walmart, which means that Walmart can offer any wage they want and the potential employees have no options beyond accepting, or being on the street.

How is it untrue? What people, who did not reach an agreement with Walmart to work together, are working at Walmart?

Why would Walmart even want to have workers who walked away from the table during negation, of whom they have no employment agreement and are technically not even employees, working for them? That doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

Even ignoring the sketchy legal ground, it seems like a huge liability to have what are effectively random people walking in off the street doing work at your store. I am still dubious that Walmart, or any other business for that matter, would allow this.

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#196

Post by ethanhunt_ »

synchronise wrote: post #169
ethanhunt_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the more interesting features of the American political environment, over at least the last three and a half decades, is the extent to which the demographic that is (or was) nominally represented by unions has voted for politicians who have made no bones about their intent to weaken the unions and labor law, especially at the state level. They failed because the majority of people are hard workers who loathe…

I tried to find a link to this so called leftist dysfunction and foot shooting incident but the only relevant article I could find through a quick search was this: http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/senator-ericksens-anti-pro...

The initiative was I-732, CarbonWA (https://yeson732.org/). The torpedoing I was referring to: "recent comments by Bauman compelled us to publicly endorse the Alliance and voice our opposition to I-732" http://fusewashington.org/why_we_cant_support_carbon_washing...

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#197

Post by vacri »

masklinn wrote: post #94
vacri wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Trump goes up against Walmart and actually makes life better for those blue-collar whites, I'll literally buy a hat and eat it. I doubt Trump will want a second term - he's made it now, and thumbed his nose at everyone. He'll find out that he can't just do what he wants as president and his days are ridiculously packed, and won't go for a second term.

> He'll find out that he can't just do what he wants as president and his days are ridiculously packed, and won't go for a second term. Or he'll find out that he can leverage the position into making money and let his VP and cronies do the ruling work. The former is how things seem to be shaping up, and the latter is how Kasich reported the VP pitch he got (also matches Trump's desire to keep doing big rallies, not m…

Looks like you're on the money, and it's already underway. I found an article going into a little depth as to how managing his business empire and managing the presidency is going to make him a lot of money, and confuse the issue for others

http://www.theage.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/how-p...

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#198

Post by pzh »

moron4hire wrote: post #126
bunderbunder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - Steinbeck

Ronald Wright, not Steinbeck.

"The problem with quotes found on the Internet is that they are often not true." --Abraham Lincoln

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#199

Post by yolesaber »

rayiner wrote: post #129
darpa_escapee wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same company that shows employees videos that are equivalent to "Unions = bad, yuck, gross, not even once" during training. They have every incentive to prevent unionization. If workers have room to negotiate, that means they could negotiate for fair compensation. Reminder that our country's labor history is rife with straight up mass murder of workers because they demanded fair pay, safe working conditio…

> massive profits. Wal-Mart's profit margin is about 5%.

That doesn't mean that $131.69 billion is not a massive amount of money. http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Wal-Mart_(WMT)/Data/Gross_Pro...

Re: Wal-Mart Tells Workers: Don’t Download Labor Group’s Chat App

#200

Post by phs318u »

moron4hire wrote: post #126
bunderbunder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." - Steinbeck

Ronald Wright, not Steinbeck.

The misattribution doesn't make the observation any less pertinent.
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