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Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#191

Post by brendoncrawford »

st3fan wrote: post #54
lmedinas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why having a separate application with these features instead of adding them to Firefox for iOS ? Is it planned to have content blockers support in Firefox for iOS ?

It is complicated. Here is the story of two WebView implementations in iOS: Firefox is based on the WKWebView. Modern and Fast, but has a very poor (thin) API. It has zero options for interacting with the network stack, which is a requirement for content blocking. Bugs have been open since iOS 8, Apple does not seem to be interested or does not have the resources to surface more API. All the APIs are in WKWebView, ju…

Thanks for explaining this in simple terms. I have been curious about this for a while.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#192

Post by skrowl »

benologist wrote: post #151
mikeash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple gets away with it because they don't have a monopoly. There's a large variety of non-Apple smartphones and tablets you can buy. Microsoft's behavior was restricted because they were a monopoly. There were alternatives to Windows, but the court decided that they were sufficiently insignificant that Windows was effectively a monopoly. That changes the rules. Windows market share at the time was about 95%, Apple's…

Is a monopoly suit the only legal way to instigate change?

Voting with your wallet is easier and often more effective. Apple had to be stubborn here because a full Chrome and Firefox (with extensions and apps) could potential hurt their app store revenue.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#193

Post by winteriscoming »

This is good news. I always wanted something like this in browsers on desktop. I know this one is for iOS, but at least I can use it on my mobile.

Anyone know why this isn't available on Android or desktop (Linux)? Technical reasons or is it due to not enough developer bandwidth to implement it (which is reasonable too)

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#194

Post by ryanpollock »

mikeash wrote: post #93
planetjones wrote: post #85

Why can't someone take Apple to court and argue that developers should be able to build native web browser apps without relying on the Web View component? We have st3fan saying "Firefox Focus" is not ideal because he's had to use the older and slower WKWebView to implement it. Isn't this similar to Microsoft when they were forced to allow a choice of browser, or do Apple get away with it because they allow alternativ…

Apple gets away with it because they don't have a monopoly. There's a large variety of non-Apple smartphones and tablets you can buy. Microsoft's behavior was restricted because they were a monopoly. There were alternatives to Windows, but the court decided that they were sufficiently insignificant that Windows was effectively a monopoly. That changes the rules. Windows market share at the time was about 95%, Apple's…

Mike and others, do you realize how different the web on Android has become from the web on iOS? The gap between the web's abilities on the two operating systems is growing quickly. Grab an iPhone and an Android phone, and visit http://pwa.rocks

You'll see very different behavior in Chrome for Android and Chrome for iOS because the latter is required to use WebKit. There are some really big problems with the present situation. The web's fundamental promise of a cross-platform consistent runtime is basically broken, and consumers, developers, and businesses all suffer significant but mostly invisible harm.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#195

Post by azernik »

ryanpollock wrote: post #194
mikeash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple gets away with it because they don't have a monopoly. There's a large variety of non-Apple smartphones and tablets you can buy. Microsoft's behavior was restricted because they were a monopoly. There were alternatives to Windows, but the court decided that they were sufficiently insignificant that Windows was effectively a monopoly. That changes the rules. Windows market share at the time was about 95%, Apple's…

Mike and others, do you realize how different the web on Android has become from the web on iOS? The gap between the web's abilities on the two operating systems is growing quickly. Grab an iPhone and an Android phone, and visit http://pwa.rocks You'll see very different behavior in Chrome for Android and Chrome for iOS because the latter is required to use WebKit. There are some really big problems with the present…

That's a separate question from whether they're doing something illegal. Illegality depends on abuse of monopoly power, not on the technical problems it causes for the industry.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#196

Post by ryanpollock »

azernik wrote: post #195
ryanpollock wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mike and others, do you realize how different the web on Android has become from the web on iOS? The gap between the web's abilities on the two operating systems is growing quickly. Grab an iPhone and an Android phone, and visit http://pwa.rocks You'll see very different behavior in Chrome for Android and Chrome for iOS because the latter is required to use WebKit. There are some really big problems with the present…

That's a separate question from whether they're doing something illegal. Illegality depends on abuse of monopoly power, not on the technical problems it causes for the industry.

Good reading material here https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#197

Post by joelkesler »

greggman wrote: post #189
phn wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much more productive question would be: Why don't they allow it? They cite performance and security control, and really, can you blame them? The web is quite the wild west nowadays, and the WebViews they provide, while not ideal, cover most of the cases while offering a decent level of protection. And I think that somewhere down the road Apple will open up, when the system is ready.

Kind of an aside but, If I understand correctly any WebView's contents is completely readable by the app it's embedded in. Which means you should arguably never trust any app that opens it's own WebView for view links. For example if you use the QR-Code Reader App it opens QR codes that leads to websites into it's own WebView rather than just forwarding the link to Safari. So, if the QR code is for anything that asks…

I disagree. That is only one potential issue (grabbing passwords and info from the web view) and the threat is coming from the app it self, not the content loaded.

A big issue comes from potential 3rd party browsers not being hardened to browser exploits which could circumvent device security. It may not be able to break out of the browser's security sandbox but if the browser has access to your camera, photos, contacts, etc...

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#199

Post by solnyshok »

GavinMcG wrote: post #156
solnyshok wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just like there is freedom of speech, there should be freedom of browser choice. either device is browserless, or, it should allow for more than one browser. I'd add this to modern commandments, somewhere between net neutrality, independent DNS and guaranteed free internet access for everyone.

"Freedom of speech" means freedom from government interference with your speech. It's not what you're construing it as.

People seem stuck on reacting to the "freedom of speech" here. However, nowhere did I state that there is a legal obligation for apple or government to provide browser choice. Still, I think that it would be in a public interest, and I hope it becomes a law someday, to protect not only freedom of expression and net neutrality, but also free access to internet, and to require any corporation that sells device connecting to the internet (in browser mode) - to let people choose to use free and open sourse browser to read internet.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#200

Post by GavinMcG »

solnyshok wrote: post #199
GavinMcG wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Freedom of speech" means freedom from government interference with your speech. It's not what you're construing it as.

People seem stuck on reacting to the "freedom of speech" here. However, nowhere did I state that there is a legal obligation for apple or government to provide browser choice. Still, I think that it would be in a public interest, and I hope it becomes a law someday, to protect not only freedom of expression and net neutrality, but also free access to internet, and to require any corporation that sells device connecti…

It might be because when you say "just like there is freedom of speech" you are making a reference to a legal term of art which isn't "just like" what you compared it to.

The latter part of your response (after "Still") is a sensible statement, and in the future I'd suggest stating that directly, rather than tying it to misapplied legal terminology.

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