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Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

arstechnica.com

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Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#191

Post by serge2k »

StavrosK wrote: post #77
csallen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very important to realize that this is a problem that our generation will have to fix, or it will never be fixed. To us, this seems completely unnatural, because we've spent so many years in a world where this type of tech could be truly "owned." However, future generations born in the world of today will be totally accustomed to renting/licensing everything. They won't have the same fiery indignation that we do…

If the next generation will be fine with it, why fix it? Doesn't that just mean that we're our grandfathers, clinging to "the good old days" when we could own stuff?

The next generation will be used to massive storms and other problems. Why bother trying to do anything about Global warming.

The next generation will just get cancer as often as we do. Why bother trying to curb smoking. (okay, this one would be for my grandparents).

Sure we don't like taxation without representation, but the next generation will grow up with and won't mind. Why bother changing it.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#192

Post by serge2k »

snrplfth wrote: post #86
csallen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it does mean that. I can't deny it. But there's no law of physics stating that grandparents are necessarily wrong about everything. I think there's a strong argument to be made that the world really is better when consumers own instead of rent.

I just don't see how this is not ownership. You aren't renting, you're paying a standard purchase price for a good which has some restrictions on its use. Do you think that Tesla should have to make sure that its self-driving software is compatible with every ridesharing app that any random person comes up with? How will that work with liability if somebody sends their self-driving Tesla out to work under a rideshari…

> How will that work with liability if somebody sends their self-driving Tesla out to work under a ridesharing app that feeds bad inputs to it?

Okay, Tesla's reasonable licensing agreement has a liability waiver when using the app for ride-sharing outside of certified applications.

That's a pretty reasonable piece of licensing. It's also not unheard of to state that a piece of equipment is not warrantied or you waive liability if used in commercial ventures, or outside of normal operation.

I'd be fine with that. It places responsibility on the owner of the car.

edit:

I also have no problem with Tesla not facilitating ride sharing. If the limitation to their network is just because the software makes it difficult to use a third party app then so be it.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#193

Post by jboles »

EdHominem wrote: post #174
snrplfth wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a car manufacturer telling you that they do not want you handing over control of a vehicle to ridesharing programs that they cannot be sure are compatible with their self-driving systems. Ridesharing programs will literally be giving control inputs to the car, and Tesla has determined that those inputs should come either from licensed drivers or from their own ridesharing program. Because they're not dumb an…

That's not true though. The app isn't going to crank the steering wheel around, it's going to input a destination. Their lies don't become any more compelling when you repeat them.

The destination is not a control input?

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#194

Post by jboles »

arcticbull wrote: post #40
sschueller wrote: post #32

What will Tesla do if you do it anyway? Disable your $100k car? Does that hold up in court? What did you buy for $100k?

The license to drive a Tesla subject to the terms and conditions.

No, you're free to drive the Tesla however you wish. If you want Tesla software to drive the Tesla, then there are conditions. Fair enough.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#195

Post by jboles »

FireBeyond wrote: post #133
arcticbull wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license to drive a Tesla subject to the terms and conditions.

So you still own the car but won't be licensed to drive it? And people are saying "Yeah, sounds reasonable!" in this thread? Okay...

Might want to read the article?

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#196

Post by serge2k »

virtualsue wrote: post #29

Surely this is to stop Uber, Lyft etc from buying a fleet of the things for their business use, rather than targeting individual drivers specifically (though they're happy to stop that too).

Why should tesla stop that? Fleet sales are big money.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#197

Post by virtualsue »

serge2k wrote: post #196
virtualsue wrote: post #29

Surely this is to stop Uber, Lyft etc from buying a fleet of the things for their business use, rather than targeting individual drivers specifically (though they're happy to stop that too).

Why should tesla stop that? Fleet sales are big money.

Since they appear to plan on running an uber/lyft style service with self-driving tech, and they believe that their tech is especially likely to give them an advantage in that business, that would be one big reason.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#198

Post by flylib »

serge2k wrote: post #196
virtualsue wrote: post #29

Surely this is to stop Uber, Lyft etc from buying a fleet of the things for their business use, rather than targeting individual drivers specifically (though they're happy to stop that too).

Why should tesla stop that? Fleet sales are big money.

the majority of revenue will come from tesla network, it will far eclipse potential revenue from fleet sales, this isn't that controversial what tesla is doing and is what every car company will do.

Revenue from car sales will go down as more and more people use fleet services and car companies will make the majority of revenue from autonomous ride sharing networks, why let some competitor use your cars/software without having to do any of the difficult work themselves, creating a low barrier to entry is a losing strategy if your doing all the work

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#199

Post by rdlecler1 »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #156

This is a smart move. Tesla doesn't want to be disintermediated. Besides ride sharing is a commercial use application and may be costly to their warranty.

Down voted for this comment? What would Paul Graham recommend to Telsa is he was on the board.

Re: Revenue from self-driving Teslas only allowed through the Tesla Network

#200

Post by nunez »

snowwrestler wrote: post #20

The erosion of the concept of "ownership" continues. Traditionally, goods are subject to the first sale doctrine--once I buy a shirt, it's my property, and if I want to sell or rent it, I can. It's mine. But software is licensed. When I buy a piece of software, I'm actually paying for a limited and revokable right to use someone else's property. And now companies are putting software into more and more goods. As soft…

Here's the thing, though.

Tesla wants their cars to be the best and most popular cars on the road. It's directly beneficial to their mission of safer and more convenient driving for everyone. our entire notion of what driving means and how it's done will change when Teslas outnumber manually-driven cars (they'll be closer to the protocols followed by planes, actually).

There's only one problem. Not everyone can afford to buy or finance a $100,000 car. Many people struggle to buy or finance a $30,000 car. But many more people can afford to lease cars at those price-points. So like every luxury car brand ever, it's in Tesla's best interest to promote leasing the car to get it in as many people's garages as possible.

This creates another problem: Teslas aren't sold at dealerships. You configure your car online, check out, sign some papers and wait for your car to be delivered. There's no central place for modified Teslas to be sold or traded-in and reconfigured back to stock. A modified Tesla compromises the safety features that make them so lucrative. This compromises things like their self-driving goals.

What do? Maybe locking down the firmware super tight and putting scary words in the purchasing/leasing agreement that discourage any curiosities regarding changing the car is a good approach. Given the stakes they're trying to pull and given just how friggin' awesome their cars are and given that I generally don't care for repairing cars anyway, I'm totally fine with never touching the internals if it means that I can have a more boss car for less money.

I think this argument applies for nearly everything, which is why SaaS products are so lucrative.

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