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Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

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Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#191

Post by jtfairbank »

xapata wrote: post #172
ta_donk_gt wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an opposing anecdote, I've spent a significant percentage of my software development years in the medical arena. The overwhelming majority of doctors that I have worked with do not work as hard, anywhere near as many hours, or under as much stress and the overwhelming majority of software developers I have worked with. The stressful period for most doctors is getting into medical school, getting through medical sc…

Software will continue its bifurcation into two income distributions, similar to lawyers. No lawyer earns average salary. That industry is split into low wage work and high wage work. I expect software will be the same.

This seems to be a trend among many highly paid fields:

- Many doctors earn 100k or 3-400k depending on their field.

- Many small business owners earn - 9 out of 10 startups outright fail or aren't successful enough to compensate founders & employees for the opportunity cost.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#192

Post by [deleted] »

nilkn wrote: post #118
gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

I'm skeptical of claims that developers are underpaid. Maybe I feel differently about this because I'm not in a major tech hub and am not faced with the prospect of buying a multimillion dollar cottage, but when I compare my life as a software developer to that of more or less anyone else I know, including doctors and lawyers, I struggle to find a single person who seems to have a more comfortable life than me. I'm n…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#193

Post by dasmoth »

jaredsohn wrote: post #57
gtrubetskoy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which way is "working from home" "taking it easy"?

It can be quieter, you don't have to deal with office distractions, and if you are an introvert it can be less draining.

Certainly agree on the "less draining" part -- but I'd like to think I'm being paid for making stuff, rather than for ending the day shattered.

Some employers seem to have different views, though.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#194

Post by dasmoth »

andrewguenther wrote: post #115
obstacle1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is the case for the specific type of person who ends up working where you work. But it isn't universal. Many of us don't need "adult supervision" in order to be highly productive.

> But it isn't universal. Neither are people being highly productive without "adult supervision." In all seriousness, I find your comment incredibly insulting. I gave an opinion based off of experience, that doesn't mean that I'm some sort of child that needs to be supervised. > the specific type of person who ends up working where you work I typically prefer to keep my comments here civil, but seriously? Fuck you.

>>> Neither are people being highly productive without "adult supervision."

This may be true, but it's frustrating when that just gets assumed.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#195

Post by [deleted] »

andrewguenther wrote: post #115
obstacle1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is the case for the specific type of person who ends up working where you work. But it isn't universal. Many of us don't need "adult supervision" in order to be highly productive.

> But it isn't universal. Neither are people being highly productive without "adult supervision." In all seriousness, I find your comment incredibly insulting. I gave an opinion based off of experience, that doesn't mean that I'm some sort of child that needs to be supervised. > the specific type of person who ends up working where you work I typically prefer to keep my comments here civil, but seriously? Fuck you.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#196

Post by dasmoth »

elihu wrote: post #173

I work for Intel, and just a couple weeks ago switched to a 32-hour-a-week schedule. I had to get approval from my boss, and presumably my boss had to get approval from his boss, but it was a pretty easy switch. So far, it's been great. Benefits are the same, salary amortized at 80%, and stock grants are reduced a bit more than that. I think most people would rather have the extra money, for various reasons. If I owe…

Good for you. I can assure you that there are plenty of people with kids who like this idea, too!

But what's the justification for a more-than-pro-rata loss of stock grants?

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#197

Post by erklik »

nilkn wrote: post #118
gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

I'm skeptical of claims that developers are underpaid. Maybe I feel differently about this because I'm not in a major tech hub and am not faced with the prospect of buying a multimillion dollar cottage, but when I compare my life as a software developer to that of more or less anyone else I know, including doctors and lawyers, I struggle to find a single person who seems to have a more comfortable life than me. I'm n…

I sort of agree with what you're saying but just wanna point out that you may not have gone to school and have have a loan etc.

But many many software engineers do. Many of us go to uni and study a traditional degree and therefore, have a lot of loans etc as well as spend 3 to 4 years in University.

Also, learning for a software engineer is pretty much forever since the moment you stop learning is your downfall in software development.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#198

Post by erklik »

vectorjohn wrote: post #175
zeeveener wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programmers can suffer from this problem as well as engineers. The project never fully leaves your mind and often I'll go home and mull over the reasons why things might not be working or how to start another task. No "actual" work gets done, but I'm still working; just as you described.

Nope, you're not working. You or the parent. That's a nonsensical definition of work. Nobody is making you mull things over, you're doing it because you want to, because you find your job interesting. Some may try to claim the contrary, but I'm sure if you're doing something other than a mundane task like driving or cleaning, your mind instantly gets sidetracked from "working". You can't possibly actually be thinking…

Actually, many times i do not want to think about it but my brain often gets stuck on that hinge. That may not be how everyone works but i am just presenting what happens to me.

Also, Carpenters are physical workers. Their work is fundamentally physical, it'll be like saying that the Carpenter was always making the table or whatever product he is working even while he is not at that location. That doesn't even make sense, its actually impossible.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#199

Post by lisivka »

dleslie wrote: post #114
vadym909 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While all previous evidence goes towards pointing this to be another way for AMZN to squeeze more out of their employees, I think we could give them the benefit of doubt. I think they may have seen a segment of talented developers saying I don't want to be in this ratrace. I'd rather work 30hrs/week and make $100K to maintain work-life balance. 6hrs/week or 4 days/week. I wish more companies were open to this. It wou…

I'd love to make $100k USD working a 40h week.

I'd love to make $200k USD working a 20h week.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#200

Post by proofmaster »

fratlas wrote: post #99
dav43 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of many more jobs, jobs that require you to think and use judgement. This isn't just engineering jobs.

Yes, especially for those jobs that already require 60-80 hour weeks (doctor, IB etc). We get paid well for our hours.

Depends on where you live. Doctors aren't paid that well in most Eastern European countries.
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