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A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

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Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a Vive and love it, but I'll give a few reasons why VR may not quite be ready yet: - The resolution needs to be higher. It is very difficult to read anything but oversized text at a hand's distance. While the low resolution doesn't kill the immersive effect of VR, it is very noticeable. - The clear viewing angle through the headset is small. You can't look too far off of center screen before everything becomes…

My 8 year old son knows more about the Rift from watching his youtube buddies than I did. That's when I realized its gonna stick this time. He had a chance to use it at his summer camp and now he's saving his allowance so he can ask Santa for one and buy a Kinect to make VR experiences at home (Luckily his superhero dad is a PHP and C# programmer by day) Little kids love even the simplest buggy broken demos. They go…

My niece seems to love minecraft vr on the samsung gear too. I think vr will stick this time around as well.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, that is someone saying devs were ignoring best practices. Of course people get sick if their eyes say they're flying around and their body says they're sitting still. That's the game devs fault, not the hardware or system.

In every game that isn't a point to teleport slideshow your character is going to be moving around and you're going to be sitting still. That's exactly why people are getting motion sickness, and why we still have no solution for this problem.

>your character is going to be moving around and you're going to be sitting still

No game that I've played that was developed for the Vive does this.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree about "room scale games". Has add-on benefits of getting out of the house and getting some exercise. Here's my idea (shh - don't tell anyone). Buy an abandoned roller skating rink and transform it into a VR game space. Of course this assume that some other entity will create one or more compelling games to be played in your space.

> Buy an abandoned roller skating rink and transform it into a VR game space I also love this idea, but it still has many barriers. Principal technical issue is that these headsets are not wireless, which means you would need anot overhead motor system to follow you around as you walked.

Or everyone wears a backpack containing the computer running the headset.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a Vive and love it, but I'll give a few reasons why VR may not quite be ready yet: - The resolution needs to be higher. It is very difficult to read anything but oversized text at a hand's distance. While the low resolution doesn't kill the immersive effect of VR, it is very noticeable. - The clear viewing angle through the headset is small. You can't look too far off of center screen before everything becomes…

I think some of those will always be problems or be problems for a long time, but the core experience of presence makes them matter less. - Resolution: It'll always be worse than a phone because for the foreseeable future VR screens will come from phone screens and the field of view on a VR HMD is many times greater. People liked doom 1 and other low res games for what they were in the day, and I think people will ac…

From what i have read about both neither has a huge sweet-spot.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#195
post #140
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome has had more than one JavaScript engine. They're all still Chrome to the user, and that's all that really matters. If they decide to rewrite the UI in Lisp and use Servo, it will still be Chrome in the ways that count, just like nobody cares if a game has DirectX and OpenGL versions. Different HMDs are arguably more similar than different GPUs, and they manage to support the same software, but in the early day…

There's a lot of features that Chrome on Android supports but that can't be added to Chrome on iOS because of Apple's policies. Important features, like fully offline-capable webapps.

I can see your point, but every platform has its own restrictions. Desktop Chrome can do a lot that Android Chrome can't. There are real security benefits to not allowing downloaded code to run on a device without passing through Apple's JavaScript engine. Of course security and features are often at odds. Outside of tech forums, I've never heard anyone complain about missing features in iOS Chrome, so I'm just saying that to most people, the interface, bookmark sync, etc. is what makes it Chrome, not the JavaScript engine, and the tech it's built on will continue to change over time, bringing new features and new restrictions.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird your comment is so far up and you haven't given any reasons as to why VR is not ready for mainstream. You have a reason for why it's being pushed, but not a reason for why it won't take. Steam sale numbers show tens of thousands of games are being bought by Vive owners, which is a pretty high percentage of the ~90k Vive units out there. Some games are as high as 50k / ~90k units. People are continuing to b…

I own a Vive and love it, but I'll give a few reasons why VR may not quite be ready yet: - The resolution needs to be higher. It is very difficult to read anything but oversized text at a hand's distance. While the low resolution doesn't kill the immersive effect of VR, it is very noticeable. - The clear viewing angle through the headset is small. You can't look too far off of center screen before everything becomes…

> They haven't found a decent solution to the problem of moving around in a VR world. Right now the best answer is teleportation

I would really enjoy if someone made a game in the spirit of QWOP that uses the two triggers in a gamepad to simulate steps made by each leg.

However, I don't mean that I would enjoy playing that game.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#197
post #34

The Valve publications page has a few slides and documents relating to Valve presentations regarding VR: http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/publications.html One of my favorite tidbits comes in the presentation, "Lessons learned porting Team Fortress 2 to Virtual Reality", on preventing VR motion sickness: http://media.steampowered.com/apps/valve/2013/Team_Fortress_... > Don’t change the user’s horizon line, ever.…

I would like to have the option to enable the head flying.

Dying (in game) is supposed to be at least a bit unpleasant, and something to be avoided.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird your comment is so far up and you haven't given any reasons as to why VR is not ready for mainstream. You have a reason for why it's being pushed, but not a reason for why it won't take. Steam sale numbers show tens of thousands of games are being bought by Vive owners, which is a pretty high percentage of the ~90k Vive units out there. Some games are as high as 50k / ~90k units. People are continuing to b…

I personally think it's not ready for the following reasons: * Many people are getting sick. They don't even know why it's happening; we're years away from it being fixed. VR right now is the 3d on the 3ds. It's not meant for human eyes and they're rushing it. * No eyetracking. Your camera focuses on the direction your head is pointed. This is not how humans see. I am virtually never looking the exact direction my he…

> Right now it looks like certain games won't work on every headset. This immediately tells consumers to wait for standardization. It's a fucking monitor. You don't get to have exclusives for your monitor.

Alright...I'm triggered, let's do this!

Here's what a VR consists of, which makes it substantially more complex than a monitor:

* Image warping. This is currently built into drivers, specific devices may require specific warping so that the images look correct after lens distortion.

* Latency reduction techniques - both the Rift and the Vive have different techniques for handling what happens if your FPS drops. I believe both of them take a rendered image that is out of date, and re-project it so its now up to date with your current head position. That is some complex math.

* Head position tracking. This is a combination of accelerometer/gyro and a lower latency but higher accuracy tracking solution like the lighthouse.

* Input devices. For example the Vive controllers communicate directly with the headset. The input devices also track physical position.

* Output - as well as sending position back to the computer, they may also send other information such as controller button presses, your IPD (because different IPDs require different graphical output).

In the future we will have some crazy optimizations going on to improve efficiency. Such as splitting each eye into four renders. Foveated rendering, which would mean the headset would contain a very low latency pupil tracker so that only the area you are looking at would be rendered with high detail, and so your eye direction can be known to the software.

All that said, yeah it's possible to create a standard wrapper around this stuff, but saying it's a monitor is not really true.

>As an aside, I like moving my focus with my mouse. It's incomparably more accurate than hoping my deviated septim is pointing exactly where I want to look. If you can't disable headtracking that's an immediate red flag for me.

Also talking about mouse input makes me feel like you haven't tried the Vive. It's not about giving you an advantage, the draw of these technologies is that they can make you feel like you are there. Think about the difference between playing angry birds on your phone, vs actually picking up a giant bird, putting it in a slingshot and destroying some houses.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As was the case with early personal computers - until some "killer apps" arrived. For businesses, the killer app was Lotus 1-2-3 and/or WordPerfect. Rest assured that some clever young things are actively working on the killer apps for VR headsets. I assume there will be at least one, and I assume that it won't be a FPS game.

No. You're seeing a low adoption rate and imagining that it's just the typical adoption cycle taught in Business 101. VR has been the next big thing for twenty years. It's not a niche technology because of Luddites, it is a niche technology because it works against human physiology and only a lucky few are totally unaffected by it. You're targeting an audience of people who find your product merely tolerable. And sin…

I think you are talking about sickness when you are talking about human physiology.

>only a lucky few are totally unaffected by it

That is true, but what you aren't covering here is that when software (and hardware) is properly designed, almost no one is affected by it! Vive games with physical locomotion do not have complaints of sickness.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As was the case with early personal computers - until some "killer apps" arrived. For businesses, the killer app was Lotus 1-2-3 and/or WordPerfect. Rest assured that some clever young things are actively working on the killer apps for VR headsets. I assume there will be at least one, and I assume that it won't be a FPS game.

No. You're seeing a low adoption rate and imagining that it's just the typical adoption cycle taught in Business 101. VR has been the next big thing for twenty years. It's not a niche technology because of Luddites, it is a niche technology because it works against human physiology and only a lucky few are totally unaffected by it. You're targeting an audience of people who find your product merely tolerable. And sin…

Personal Computers had a 15 year adoption cycle. VR will be even longer. We don't really know who is affected or unaffected by it. Only a few dozen people have used real VR on a regular basis. By "real" VR I mean a facility with at least a $M price tag. Let's assume that this raises the percent who find it utterly tolerable to 50%. That's still way higher than the rate for amusement park rides - which is a multi-billion dollar business.
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