Live data from Hacker News

Samsung Acquires Joyent

joyent.com

191–200 of 256 posts

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#191
post #155

Cloud orchestration, Container Orchestration, Kubernetes... I think I am getting old and starting to understand how my parents feel about technology. I am developer, but mostly work on desktop apps, or embedded devices or lataly on some MVC applications. But reading things like "A Container-Native Stack for Modern Applications and Operations Increase development velocity while simplifying operations." I have no idea…

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

The way I think about it: I remember in the 1990s when you needed to put up some web pages, you had to bring up an entire "web server", and that's all the server would do.

Now, think about it from a reductionistic engineering perspective. What do I really want this server to do? Well, it accepts TCP connections, parses a request to figure out which file (at the time, it was all files) to server, sticks an HTTP header on the file, and shoves it down the socket.

This task is so simple that a skilled network programmer can nowadays literally bash together a 1990s-level static HTTP server in an day, with nothing but a socket library and some basic string handling. (It may not be great and it probably is insecure, but, well... see also "1990s web server"....) The code to do this is perhaps in the dozens or hundreds of kilobytes.

But that's not what I had. I have a full computer that physically needs to live somewhere. It has hardware ethernet and hardware graphics cards and a physical monitor and a power supply and RAM and, basically, hardware hardware hardware, the failure of any one of which means the system is either difficult to change or outright down. I have an entire Windows operating system, which even in the 1990s was hundreds of megabytes of code, endless code. Code for a windowing system, for pete's sake. Code for the audio subsystem. Code for accessing the hard drive. Code for access code that accesses code. Code code code code code, a bug in any one of which means the system may be down or insecure. My website, which at the time was quite likely in single-digit megabytes in size, was a tiny directory lost in a sea of files on the hard drive.

Over the past 20 years, the commodity hardware world [1] has been slicing away at the fact that several dozen kilobytes of code are being accompanied by hundreds of megabytes of support and literal pounds of physical hardware. Hardware went first with VMs. VMs got lighter and lighter. Lightweight hypervisor solutions sliced away at the heaviness of the VM. Containers slice away at the OS. Things like Kubernates slice away at the idea of a container living somewhere physically.

We're trying to free that several dozen kilobytes of code to be just several dozen kilobytes of code, as flexible and easy-to-deploy as several dozen kilobytes should be, if you weren't mired in the world of hardware and OSes and code and strong physical connections.

(Data storage is more complicated, but in a lot of ways, the same principles are in play.)

Operationally, containers are very exciting. However, in terms of "magic technologies I don't understand", I don't think they're worth stressing about "getting old" or anything. It's mostly "just" a big pile of practical considerations in trying to not just build that world, but in some sense also undo decades of grinding-in of the physical world to our operational considerations. If you want worry about getting old and out-of-date, worry about that let you do something that you couldn't before, like GPU programming or deep learning.

[1]: Which must be specified because mainframes beat us all here decades ago, in a lot of ways.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#193
post #155

Cloud orchestration, Container Orchestration, Kubernetes... I think I am getting old and starting to understand how my parents feel about technology. I am developer, but mostly work on desktop apps, or embedded devices or lataly on some MVC applications. But reading things like "A Container-Native Stack for Modern Applications and Operations Increase development velocity while simplifying operations." I have no idea…

all these answers are helpful but misguided. it is a lot of jargon but there is some value to be had, depending on your situation.

i'd argue that this situation is if you're a developer at a large company or enterprise. developing can be a nightmare because testing and/or deploying is so difficult. sometimes this is by design, sometimes by virtue of incompetence. other times people want to change it, they just don't know how.

tools like this claim they can change this. whether that's true or not. well, that depends on more than just what tools you use but it is part of the equation.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#194
wow, Joyent. Took me a bit to remember what they were doing in the early early days since we're multiple generations or pivots or focus-shifts on now......but it was Textdrive/Textile/Textpattern CMS. Ha. Different times. At least some of that still out there in OSS Land

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Is it true that HN runs on a single server, running FreeBSD?

Yes, it runs active passive, and its written in a Lisp dialect.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could start a whole separate website of just "Best HN comments".

https://news.ycombinator.com/bestcomments

That's awesome. Are these just comments with a high karma, or is there some other magic going on?

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#197

In case anyone's curious, I blogged about the backstory of the acquisition.[1] tl;dr: We at Joyent are elated, and we believe that this will be a huge win for our customers, for our technologies and for the communities that they serve! [1] https://www.joyent.com/blog/samsung-acquires-joyent-a-ctos-p...

Has anyone in your position ever written to say, "Meh, not optimistic about this"?

Just saying, there's a bit of bias that's probably worth recognizing.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#198
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people out there like myself who are convinced that GPL is the most vile, fascist license out there. On the other hand, I have nothing against CDDL. I think the incompatibility of CDDL with the GPL is what saved the illumos community (even if inadvertently) from having their technology cannibalized by GNU and Linux. I'm happy that BSD is benefitting from illumos (and vice versa), but I'm even more happy tha…

> There are people out there like myself who are convinced that GPL is the most vile, fascist license out there. Not proprietary software? Not "open source" licenses that don't allow modification (which is also proprietary)? The GPL? The thing that gave us free software in the modern world? Well, that's certainly one opinon. > On the other hand, I have nothing against CDDL. The CDDL has a provision that if any part i…

> The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible it will be modified to make it enforceable. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms given to users" perspective.

No, that's a pretty standard severability clause that helps the user. It means that if one section of the CDDL is found invalid, users can still use the software. The GPL on the other hand, by refusing to have a severability clause, means that if any part of the GPL, no matter how inconsequential, is found invalid, the entire license is null and void and no one can use it. That intentional omission makes the GPL a much more user-hostile license than it should be.

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#199
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc. In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash scripts to help you provision each serv…

Wau thanks, that is an excellent explanation. I appreciate that it start with things I know and understand ("so you build a web app"/"bash scripts"/"puppet") and builds on that explaining what problems each consecutive steps /layer of abstraction/ solves. Now I wonder.. how many projects actually needs these kind of solution when even StackOverflow can do without it (they are in the range of few servers)? I would ima…

In addition to bkanber's comment, this technology is helpful sooner if you're using a microservices architecture, where you have very many small servers instead of a few beefy ones. Instead of "Time to spin up a new box" it might be "Time to spin up 3 box A's, 2 box B's, and a box C, D, and E...".

Re: Samsung Acquires Joyent

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/bestcomments

That's awesome. Are these just comments with a high karma, or is there some other magic going on?

Seems like a combination of length and karma — or maybe length and karma just happen to correlate? There are short ones in there too. Hmm.
Post reply on HN