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Xamarin Open-Sourced

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Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#191

Post by osweiller »

tacos wrote: post #189
osweiller wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is based upon attempting to use the products to build some solutions. The Xamarin advantage is in the cross-platform tooling (if I'm making separate code for each, why would I bother with a layer of abstraction?), but when used it generates a compromised result. It is perfectly fine for some relatively simple things. Basic information apps, etc. But it isn't long in complex apps before the abstraction is leaking…

"Compromised" how? "Leaky abstraction"? What is the abstraction and can you please provide specific examples of the leak? It worked between Mac and Windows on very complicated apps. It bridged Linux and Windows for tweaky MVC stacks a decade ago (then they wisely sharpened their focus.) It got the job done pumping data through hardcore game engines. The network stack is proven robust. You're talking about it like it'…

You're talking about it like it's some stupid ORM wrapper or wonky Widget UI library. It is not.

Again, this conversation is about Xamarin the mobile app studio. There is zero ambiguity in this, so it is perplexing that you keep bringing this up.

https://www.xamarin.com/

The context is the cross-platform app creation toolset. It generates extremely poor quality code, usually at a significantly increased development time (quite contrary to the promise). This is the case found by almost everyone who uses it, which is exactly why most teams have an Android project, fully using the tools of the platform, and an iOS project, fully using the tools of the platform. If Xamarin were heavily used, Windows Phone wouldn't be so generally unsupported.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#192

Post by tacos »

osweiller wrote: post #191
tacos wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Compromised" how? "Leaky abstraction"? What is the abstraction and can you please provide specific examples of the leak? It worked between Mac and Windows on very complicated apps. It bridged Linux and Windows for tweaky MVC stacks a decade ago (then they wisely sharpened their focus.) It got the job done pumping data through hardcore game engines. The network stack is proven robust. You're talking about it like it'…

You're talking about it like it's some stupid ORM wrapper or wonky Widget UI library. It is not. Again, this conversation is about Xamarin the mobile app studio. There is zero ambiguity in this, so it is perplexing that you keep bringing this up. https://www.xamarin.com/ The context is the cross-platform app creation toolset. It generates extremely poor quality code, usually at a significantly increased development t…

This post links to a different page. It shows three big boxes: One for iOS, watchOS, tvOS and MacOS X. One for Android. And a third one which provides a forms package providing native UI on iOS, Android and Windows. Which just received huge updates AND went open source.

There is a language: C#. There are bindings to native toolkits. There's yet another imperfect Forms package. And there's a slightly wonky IDE. I'm not sure what you're expecting but I think the "lossy abstraction" here is mostly your expectations. I also think you are applying your narrow experience (which obviously was not a great one) and trying to amplify it by using unsubstantiated statements like "most teams" and "few wins."

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#193

Post by carussell »

serge2k wrote: post #185
colbyAFTrustedK wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the question.

> If you look at the way it's currently written, it's almost as if it was specifically meant to preserve their option to pull an Oracle v Google against a vendor who decides to pick up .NET and run with it how so?

> Microsoft Corporation and its affiliates ("Microsoft") promise not to assert any .NET Patents against you for making, using, selling, offering for sale, importing, or distributing Covered Code, as part of [...] any compliant implementation in software of (a) all of the required parts of the mandatory provisions of Standard ECMA-335 [...] and (b) if implemented, any additional functionality in Microsoft's .NET Framework

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#194

Post by pookeh »

AlexC04 wrote: post #171
pookeh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BUT as of this writing if you are developing in corporate IT (meaning possibly running windows 7 systems) you actually CANNOT run react-native tools on windows easily. Eh? I use React Native on Windows. Works just fine. It's also very easy to install. Maybe you didn't try recently?

Few months. But we all know a lot has happened in the last few months. The f8 conference has happened since plus all these windows announcements. Did you install on a windows 7 machine?

Yup Windows 7.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#196

Post by ashitlerferad »

ghuntley wrote: post #117
twoquestions wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you start documenting software that you don't know well? That seems like a very good way for bad documentation to get out, damaging the project. Perhaps this is my impostor syndrome talking, but I for one would be hesitant to tempt the wrath of the Great Unseen Masters that make open source software with potentially inane questions.

Overtime, common repetitive questions will surface in conversation. Identify these patterns, write up FAQ/documentation and submit them via the pull-request process. The Great Unseen Masters will typically be grateful and respond with dumping their brain or corrections as they would normally do so in a code review. Eventually, over time, this will build up into something they can point newbies towards to RTFM so the…

If there is a FAQ it probably points to something that needs to be fixed or streamlined.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#197

Post by osweiller »

tacos wrote: post #192
osweiller wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about it like it's some stupid ORM wrapper or wonky Widget UI library. It is not. Again, this conversation is about Xamarin the mobile app studio. There is zero ambiguity in this, so it is perplexing that you keep bringing this up. https://www.xamarin.com/ The context is the cross-platform app creation toolset. It generates extremely poor quality code, usually at a significantly increased development t…

This post links to a different page. It shows three big boxes: One for iOS, watchOS, tvOS and MacOS X. One for Android. And a third one which provides a forms package providing native UI on iOS, Android and Windows. Which just received huge updates AND went open source. There is a language: C#. There are bindings to native toolkits. There's yet another imperfect Forms package. And there's a slightly wonky IDE. I'm no…

Xamarin (not Mono) is a solution that seems like all win: Why bother with completely separate solutions on iOS and Android...and maybe even Blackberry and Windows Phone and...

...when there's a magic solution that covers them all. Surely such a solution would completely take over the industry, right?

Crickets.

Extremely few successful solutions are built in Xamarin. Their case studies are limited, and are generally close to trivial apps. And when you point this out, Xamarin advocates tell you not to use most of the cross platform stuff, but instead use platform specific code that is layered on abstractions from the underlying tech, always a step behind and a mile too far.

I'm not amplifying anything: The market demonstrates every statement. Xamarin is something that floundering teams buy hoping it gives them a big heads up, and then some time down the path they just end up starting separate projects for each platform.

You obviously are heavily biased, and strangely confrontational, towards Xamarin. But this open sourcing has been met with a universal yawn.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#198

Post by tacos »

osweiller wrote: post #197
tacos wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post links to a different page. It shows three big boxes: One for iOS, watchOS, tvOS and MacOS X. One for Android. And a third one which provides a forms package providing native UI on iOS, Android and Windows. Which just received huge updates AND went open source. There is a language: C#. There are bindings to native toolkits. There's yet another imperfect Forms package. And there's a slightly wonky IDE. I'm no…

Xamarin ( not Mono ) is a solution that seems like all win: Why bother with completely separate solutions on iOS and Android...and maybe even Blackberry and Windows Phone and... ...when there's a magic solution that covers them all. Surely such a solution would completely take over the industry, right? Crickets . Extremely few successful solutions are built in Xamarin. Their case studies are limited, and are generall…

Xamarin is a company, not a product. Mono is a Microsoft-sponsored project. If you can't be bothered to get that right it makes it even harder to accept you speaking on behalf of the entire industry.

> "this open sourcing has been met with a universal yawn"

It happened 18 hours ago! Do you think the kinds of companies that code in C# even noticed yet?

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#199

Post by osweiller »

tacos wrote: post #198
osweiller wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xamarin ( not Mono ) is a solution that seems like all win: Why bother with completely separate solutions on iOS and Android...and maybe even Blackberry and Windows Phone and... ...when there's a magic solution that covers them all. Surely such a solution would completely take over the industry, right? Crickets . Extremely few successful solutions are built in Xamarin. Their case studies are limited, and are generall…

Xamarin is a company, not a product. Mono is a Microsoft-sponsored project. If you can't be bothered to get that right it makes it even harder to accept you speaking on behalf of the entire industry. > "this open sourcing has been met with a universal yawn" It happened 18 hours ago! Do you think the kinds of companies that code in C# even noticed yet?

At this point I have to assume you're trolling. No one is this obtuse.

Xamarin is a company, not a product

Xamarin the company has a primary anchor product that is a tooling and SDK to build cross platform apps (indeed, on Xamarin.com it is literally the only non-service product. There is zero ambiguity). To anyone not autistic, that is clearly the focus on this entire discussion. Your bizarre incantation of Unity using a very old version of Mono as a citation in support of Xamarin set the bar pretty low for this conversation.

It happened 18 hours ago!

Microsoft made it completely free. Yawn.. Microsoft open sources the entire SDK. Yawn.

Clearly you work either for Microsoft, or you hitched your wagon entirely to Xamarin or Microsoft. Your emotions on this are bizarre and completely out of touch with the reality.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#200

Post by tacos »

osweiller wrote: post #199
tacos wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xamarin is a company, not a product. Mono is a Microsoft-sponsored project. If you can't be bothered to get that right it makes it even harder to accept you speaking on behalf of the entire industry. > "this open sourcing has been met with a universal yawn" It happened 18 hours ago! Do you think the kinds of companies that code in C# even noticed yet?

At this point I have to assume you're trolling. No one is this obtuse. Xamarin is a company, not a product Xamarin the company has a primary anchor product that is a tooling and SDK to build cross platform apps (indeed, on Xamarin.com it is literally the only non-service product. There is zero ambiguity). To anyone not autistic, that is clearly the focus on this entire discussion. Your bizarre incantation of Unity us…

> on Xamarin.com it is literally the only non-service product

> Microsoft made it completely free. Yawn.. Microsoft open sources the entire SDK. Yawn.

After your nap, click the "All Products" link. You'll see other products -- and 26 pages of components.

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