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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#191

Post by encloser »

baldfat wrote: post #153
pink_dinner wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you create a 'middle class' when there is no money left in the industry for smaller artists? Pandora pays the superstars well and if you aren't getting millions of plays, you aren't making enough to even provide for yourself. This all started with file sharing 15 years ago. Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge…

> Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge corporation backing them. File sharing has only helped big labels by increasing the barrier to entry. Speaking about Indie Music I'm the SMALL Record Label. The money comes in through sales of Merch, Gigs and selling CD/MP3. I think there has never been a time better for Indie Mu…

I'm another person in their 40s that (tries to) primarily listens to Indie. What are you tips for discovering music?

I primarily am using Pandora and it really depends how much time I spend thumbing music up or down. Once I zero in a station it doesn't seem like I hear new artists or songs very often.

I'll also add that in my personal case, pandora led me to finding and buying more music. Spotify and smartphones over iPods (and buying a house) are why I don't by albums very often anymore.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#192

Post by steveklabnik »

collias wrote: post #80
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

Just chiming in to say it's fun to see someone mention Zao. As it turns out, I was just listening to them yesterday after not listening to them for years. I used to be a huge fan. I love that band, and they absolutely deserve to get paid. As someone who works in/with the music industry, it really pains me to see bands put out great work despite so much pain (and drama) to themselves, only to get underpaid.

I had the same reaction. Where Blood and Fire Bring Rest and Peace was so incredibly influential to me. I even liked Self Titled...

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#193

Post by WalterBright »

williamcotton wrote: post #181
baldfat wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge corporation backing them. File sharing has only helped big labels by increasing the barrier to entry. Speaking about Indie Music I'm the SMALL Record Label. The money comes in through sales of Merch, Gigs and selling CD/MP3. I think there has never been a time better for Indie Mu…

I still write originals but I only put them in my set if they're better than the covers I know. More indie rock bands should play more covers and stop pretending like they're god's gift to songwriting. More people would go to and enjoy their shows. The country, bluegrass, jam, americana and folk scenes have tons of fans that support a large number of pro and semi-pro pickers and singers. They play a lot of covers bec…

A cover done well can be very enjoyable. I tire of the album originals of Zep songs, but enjoy the song all over again when it is a cover by someone else.

Then there are covers that reimagine the song, like "White Rabbit" by Sanctuary. Pretty awesome. And who can forget "Tamborine Man" by William Shatner (!)

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#194

Post by lelandbatey »

williamcotton wrote: post #162
kiba wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to...why? That's how things were financed in the middle ages In the middle ages, can you get thousand of people to essentially send you a small paycheck every month on an ongoing basis? And what exactly is wrong with that model?

It's not as productive as it could be if people were instead engaged in the commercial activities of investing in intellectual property. Financial assets and intellectual property are not something I can teach you in a comment box. I recommend reading these two books and then we can start the conversation back up again. http://www.amazon.com/The-Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Everywh... http://www.amazon.com/Praise-Comme…

I do not intend this to offend, I truly would like to share some constructive criticism on this particular comment you've shared.

First, I totally understand how it can feel to share opinions that frequently are not given the seriousness that you feel they deserve, where it seems people may dismiss what you're saying out of hand or disagree without engaging what you're saying at all. The frustration of "spitting into the wind" in this way is totally valid.

However, I would invite you to leave off ending your comments with language decrying or dismissing those who disagree with you.

As I was reading you comment, up to the end I really was thinking "I get the sense that the internet did change quite a lot, I would like to learn more about the reasons others may disagree or why others think it may not apply." But the moment I reached where you call what I was wondering about a "yawn inducing knee-jerk rebuttal" I completely moved from curious to hurt.

I may very well have questions about what you've shared (and indeed, I do!) but disgruntled dismissal of alternative viewpoints makes me feel as though asking to learn more would yield only contemptuous or belittling comments.

I suspect you'll convince many more people if you leave off the needling language.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#195

Post by ajtaylor »

6stringmerc wrote: post #61
rorykoehler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can almost always get a tone similar to your target Therein lies the rub. You can't beat real circuits and valves especially when you're cranking it loud for a gig. The difference between the (admittedly pretty amazing) VST's and the real deal is the difference between sounding good and sounding great. Touring a band is still expensive. So much so that it was the difference between going on extensive global tour…

As much as I want to agree with you nostalgia wise on the "real circuits and valves" thing, pretty much every industry magazine interview I've read with the top teir of guitarists basically say that "real amps" are for in the studio and when going on the road just use the Kemper[1] and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Honestly I would buy one of those in a heartbeat if I had the income/need/ability to writ…

I'm not a musician and I've never heard of a Kemper before, but that's one amazing piece of kit!

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#196

Post by 6stringmerc »

WalterBright wrote: post #190
sneak wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do. This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the bac…

While I am really familiar with that film and the players in it, I think your point is rather limited to considering "pop" music, which creates the biggest returns. None of the 'hired studio musicians / songwriters / etc' dynamic applies to a band like Muse, Coldplay or Radiohead, yet still applies to Adele and Taylor Swift. The Wrecking Crew film is a very good summary of the way 'the business' worked long ago - still does to a certain extent, say in Nashville - but the access to instruments and music now has really changed the dynamic.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#197

Post by 6stringmerc »

mapgrep wrote: post #175

Important context for the hostility toward the interviewer: The founder and publisher of Rolling Stone, Jann Wenner, is also the chairman and founder of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which Miller was railing against. (Wenner didn't do the interview, of course; he just pays and publishes whoever did.)

I still wonder if Jann Wenner is telling the truth that he didn't cancel Hunter S. Thompson's health insurance while en route to Vietnam for reporting purposes. Hunter was quite adamant that Wenner did it. We may never know.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#198

Post by mercurial »

yolesaber wrote: post #76
thomnottom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Miles Davis regularly beat his wives...

Upvoted because you are right. Sometimes we let the work and creative persona of an artist overshadow their flaws. While I still deeply respect Davis the musician (not that he'd care what some white guy thinks), how he treated some of his wives was disgusting.

He didn't treat people very well in general. You could say he was an unpleasant individual. Of course, drug and alcohol abuse didn't help.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#199

Post by its_pointless »

Animats wrote: post #84

Musicians getting rich was a brief phenomenon. Historically, musicians ranked below bartenders. Making phonograph records was a process with expensive tooling, manufacturing, and distribution costs. Radio was an industry with limited airtime and a small number of stations. These factors created an industry with few songs produced in large numbers, resulting in the "rock star" industry. That's over. Through heavy prom…

You clearly have no clue about music or the music business.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#200

Post by kiba »

williamcotton wrote: post #162
kiba wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to...why? That's how things were financed in the middle ages In the middle ages, can you get thousand of people to essentially send you a small paycheck every month on an ongoing basis? And what exactly is wrong with that model?

It's not as productive as it could be if people were instead engaged in the commercial activities of investing in intellectual property. Financial assets and intellectual property are not something I can teach you in a comment box. I recommend reading these two books and then we can start the conversation back up again. http://www.amazon.com/The-Mystery-Capital-Capitalism-Everywh... http://www.amazon.com/Praise-Comme…

Linking to books and telling people to read it is not an argument.

Cue the knee-jerk rebuttal in 3... 2... 1...

"But the internet changed everything!"

Uh huh, ok, sure, whatever you say... yawn

From my perspective, there's nothing to argue with or talk about.

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