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Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

nature.com

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Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#191

Post by MrBra »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #118

LSD and psychedelics are the next frontier in science IMHO. And I don't mean just neural science, psychology or psychiatry. It seems that these substances hold the key to how the brain "produces" reality and that could open doors to areas such as computer-brain interfaces, transfer of consciousness, fully immersive "life-long" virtual reality and so on. But that's just peanuts. There's the social aspect - psychedelic…

If you guys want to start soft with some small dosages of mdma at home, I definitely recommend you to spend some time watching Daft Punk videos on YouTube, you won't regret that! It will a be somewhere in the middle between sweet, smooth, nice and brainfucking! You won't forget the music and the mood for long...

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#192

Post by lsd_throwaway »

alchemism wrote: post #176
lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

Have you had any bipolar or schizoaffective symptoms in your past medical history? ...Or does anyone in your family by chance? LSD (even small doses) is known to trigger manic episodes and schizophrenic breaks for those who suffer from such things -- oftentimes the person is not even aware they have the underlying problem until after it is triggered by drug use, which leads to the popular mythology of "folks who neve…

I don't and as far as I know my family doesn't - I wouldn't have tried LSD if I did (I was already nervous enough even without the additional risk). In general I'm pretty stable.

Given all the data I could find it seemed that the majority of people have positive experiences and only a minority have the trouble that I had, but it's possible that it's underreported - either way the risk is real.

I've never tried shrooms, but from what I read the risk there seems similar.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#193

Post by [deleted] »

lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16
lossolo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

[deleted]

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#194

Post by Joof »

lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16
lossolo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

As a counter-counter point, I tried it as something of a last-ditch effort after having daily panic attacks for a year. I haven't had one since and I'm depressed much less often.

I took a hell of a lot less and made extra care to do it with kind, experienced people in a safe environment with incredibly joyful activities lined up (The Lego movie is a favorite; starts with a song called 'everything is awesome'). A friend who is a clinical psychologist lived nearby which didn't hurt if things went south.

Maybe the brain is somewhat more plastic for the duration, I'm not sure, but I do think caution should be used. In research contexts a professional is there to keep you on the right track. I'm willing to bet that if I had been alone, I would have ended up worse than I started.

There's very little reliable (read: modern) academic research out there, but looking for it can probably give a little piece of mind. I'm on my phone, but there's a paper (linked to in this article; not sure how permanent that is) that shows that mental disorders in psychedelic users appears similar to mental disorders in the regular population.

There's also some personality studies showing a long-term increase in the openness trait which is an incredibly unusual occurance.

Edit: I considered posting this under a throwaway, but it's sort of a shame that we can't talk about these things at least a little openly.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#195

Post by darkclarity »

martin1975 wrote: post #181
darkclarity wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I experienced a similar (but non-drug related) shock to you several years ago and it changed how I think. I came to the conclusion that religion is just an old fashioned, and highly specialised, way of treating mental health. Without going into details, it gives people an ultimate dose of peace of mind.

well people have tried excessive orgasms for treating mental health... or drugs... or workaholism... or some other addiction. It never pans out. So I guess surrendering to a higher power isn't so bad. Just gotta choose that power wisely, no?

Yeah, some religions are more benign than others, to put it mildly. I'm not religious personally, but I find it interesting that a lot of these religious movements practice stoic values and do some sort of meditation. Those two aspect are now mainstream treatments (AKA CBT and Mindfulness) that doctors recommend for mental health problems. That's just scratching the surface though.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#196

Post by Joof »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #183
Balgair wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continue your passion! Neuro is so cool and we need comp-sci people, at the least to process the data and help out with connecting VGA cables (I shudder at bio people's hard-coding). Interconnectivity in the brain is very stereotyped. Certain areas typically only talk to certain others. The 'connectome' in the brain is being mapped these days and there is a lot to learn, but I think we can say that the connectome is…

> Continue your passion! Neuro is so cool and we need comp-sci people, at the least to process the data and help out with connecting VGA cables (I shudder at bio people's hard-coding). What do you mean by the connectome is stereotypical? I was reading up on connectomes and was pleasantly surprised to find out that model organisms like C Elegans have been fully mapped but I haven't heard of any large insights being de…

About the stress of academia...

I did some work with a cognitive science / computer science researcher while in undergrad and know plenty of PhDs in various fields. Academia is seeping with stress. Grad students have a very high rate of mental illness. I greatly admire the people who do that work, especially if they are working towards tenure. The work is incredibly fun, but you have to be a certain kind of person to handle the tenure route.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#197

Post by thoughtpalette »

tpm wrote: post #101
lossolo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

I never had bad feelings on MDMA, or afterwards. No comedown either, on the contrary, plenty of afterglow. The interpersonal variability of these experiences is amazing.

The day after MDMA always is shot in my personal experiences. Very lethargic, feeling worn out and out of it.

The day after taking LSD on the other hand was a great. Was very productive and motivated.

To each their own.

EDIT: Important to note than I'm never active on MDMA, always a couch potato so the feelings of lethargy may differ.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#198

Post by killa_kyle »

martin1975 wrote: post #178
tremon wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image flew. Too late, you just sinned. Nope. A fleeting image or thought is lust in your mind , not in your heart. Incidentally.... Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God Enlightenment is achieved by realizing one does not need God to do right.

My problem is that I don't trust my own sense of morality.

Can you expand on that?

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#199

Post by Balgair »

stuxnet79 wrote: post #183
Balgair wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continue your passion! Neuro is so cool and we need comp-sci people, at the least to process the data and help out with connecting VGA cables (I shudder at bio people's hard-coding). Interconnectivity in the brain is very stereotyped. Certain areas typically only talk to certain others. The 'connectome' in the brain is being mapped these days and there is a lot to learn, but I think we can say that the connectome is…

> Continue your passion! Neuro is so cool and we need comp-sci people, at the least to process the data and help out with connecting VGA cables (I shudder at bio people's hard-coding). What do you mean by the connectome is stereotypical? I was reading up on connectomes and was pleasantly surprised to find out that model organisms like C Elegans have been fully mapped but I haven't heard of any large insights being de…

Stereotypical in the sense that most connectomes are the same amoungst the same sub-species. You mention C. elegans as an animal and it's connections are mostly the same no matter the animal. That is a huge finding btw, going in, there is nothing to suggest that they should be all pretty much the same.

The neuro stumbling blocks are computational power and knowledge of the modulation of the circuit. We just can't model the circuits in sufficient detail right now and we don't know how to 'cheat' it such that we can still see most of the behavior but can do so in some fraction of the computation time. We need better and more efficient models. Your genomics work would be very useful in the numerical analysis of neural nets. The mammalian brain is also very mysterious still, C elegans is transparent, mice are not. We are having a heck of a time mapping it. The work is slow going, but still moving. Better modeling should accelerate the process and help us narrow where to look and the best bang for our buck in terms of experiments.

I would not go back to grad school if I were you then. Grad school is a ton of stress for little reward (in terms of $$$). In terms of desire, it is very individual and mostly depends on the advisor. If you want to go back and have a super-duper advisor already waiting for you, by all means. But the stress load is extreme. 90+ hr weeks for 5-7 years and ~30k/year.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#200

Post by stuxnet79 »

Joof wrote: post #196
stuxnet79 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Continue your passion! Neuro is so cool and we need comp-sci people, at the least to process the data and help out with connecting VGA cables (I shudder at bio people's hard-coding). What do you mean by the connectome is stereotypical? I was reading up on connectomes and was pleasantly surprised to find out that model organisms like C Elegans have been fully mapped but I haven't heard of any large insights being de…

About the stress of academia... I did some work with a cognitive science / computer science researcher while in undergrad and know plenty of PhDs in various fields. Academia is seeping with stress. Grad students have a very high rate of mental illness. I greatly admire the people who do that work, especially if they are working towards tenure. The work is incredibly fun, but you have to be a certain kind of person to…

So did you stop at the Bsc level or did you go ahead and do a Masters? Tenure is basically not worth it to me. If I went back to grad school I'd go with the intention of moving right back to industry afterwards. While I don't miss the constant stress I do miss the challenge, progression, joy of discovery and relative independence of Grad School.
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