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How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

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191–200 of 202 posts

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#191
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "can do the same as the above" I heartily disagree. There's a big difference, huge difference between "can barely" and "does it really fucking well". The iPad shoots for the latter (we'll see if it hits), the netbook's mere existence is predicated on the former. If your definition of "can do the same" means "someone willing to bang their head hard enough and willing to live with a substandard user experience can do…

> After the iPod, the Mac, and the iPhone, I don't think geeks still get why Apple is successful: they build devices that normal people actually want. I think there is some collective head-in-the-sand in the geek community because what people apparently want is not at all like what geeks want. The average user doesn't want freedom, doesn't want an open kernel, doesn't give a shit about standards, they want to have a…

I'm not - but geeks fight the wrong battles regardless. Instead of realizing and building what our users want, we constantly tread water and waste our time on issues (important to us, and us only) like opening our code. This has no tangible benefit (nor harm, to be fair), yet it's something we fight about instead of spending this time building slick, efficient UIs.

For example, I just read a most interesting exchange on a board, where one guy was going on about how the video experience sucks because there's no DVD drive - it's completely missing the forest for the trees, getting hung up about a single insignificant detail that's at the very best a nice-to-have. This sort of tunnel vision prevents the broad view required to execute this sort of device.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#192
At first I was let down with it being closed system. But after a night to sleep on it, I'm starting to warm to the idea.

I'll never use the iPad for work, and in the same way I can't bring myself round to using a Mac Mini as my media centre, I don't want the hassle of a full OS over a purposely built OS for the task(s) in hand. All I'd want to do on the iPad is browse the web, read, watch videos, and perhaps play some games.

Overall as long as this isn't Apples future strategy for the Mac platform (which would be suicide), I think it's a nice product, which by the looks of it, will do the job it's made for brilliantly.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#193
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People hate being held down, forced into one category, etc. Here's an alternative take on this (with a story). I recently saw Thomas Keller (chef and owner of Per Se here in NYC and French Laundry in CA, among others) talking about a new-ish restaurant of his in CA, Ad Hoc. Ad Hoc has no menus. They make meals and serve them family style. You take what you want from the dishes provided. You have choice only within…

But, this isn't about giving the users freedom from choice; with 140,000 options in the App Store, that's a lot of choices. This is explicitly about locking developers down, and not allowing them to do things that Apple does not approve of. Want to write a competing web browser? Sorry, you can't. Want to write an awesome JIT that optimizes itself for their shiny new chip? No can do. Imagine if this policy had been in…

> But, this isn't about giving the users freedom from choice; with 140,000 options in the App Store, that's a lot of choices.

Fair enough, but isn't the point that some applications (ones central to the device like the browser, email, maybe calendar now?, book app?) can't be duplicated? You can't write Firefox for the iPad or submit Opera mobile. Or, I suppose you can, but Apple won't accept such items, will they?

So in that sense, the mere number of apps is irrelevant. My point was that the experience is very, very heavily controlled and that many people turn out not to mind that when it comes to such devices.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#194
post #133
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it being about my Mum being able to use it without having to phone me saying that it's all gone wrong again You're confusing correlation with causation. The fact that your Mum has been unable to use devices in the past is not _caused_ by the devices being open platforms. Lots of people can't even operate a dvd player and they are certainly locked down devices. Being easy to operate and being locked down are mutually…

You don't mean mutually exclusive. You mean independent. If events A & B are mutually exclusive, it means that if A happens, then B cannot happen, and vice-versa

or maybe orthogonal?

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#196
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't mean mutually exclusive. You mean independent. If events A & B are mutually exclusive, it means that if A happens, then B cannot happen, and vice-versa

or maybe orthogonal?

Would also be a good word. It taps a different area of maths for its metaphor.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#197
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because most people don't want a device . They want to be able to watch videos, read books and listen to music. The enabling device is incidental.

Agreed. Few people went on about how miserable and useless and limiting the pocket calculator was.

And then those few bought RPN calculators.

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#198
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is alarmist nonsense. The App store and the iPhone have fostered a colossal amount of innovation, and made a lot of normal non-techy people very, very happy. And a bunch of techies too. And in the end I hope it doesn't come down to open source advocates getting their way so they can install vim, but it being about my Mum being able to use it without having to phone me saying that it's all gone wrong again and ca…

I hope it doesn't come down to open source advocates getting their way so they can install vim Installing vim isn't mutually exclusive from having a usable system.

Doesn't a Mac run Vim and is usable by normal people too?

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#199
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "power users".

Power User: 1) An account that is a member of a default privileged group present in Windows 2000 through Windows 2003. Has the ability to install random crap and break everything, but not the ability to fix anything (unless they exploit their breakage ability to escalate privileges). 2) Someone who reads "top ten ways to..." articles on sites like Digg, Reddit, or Lifehacker and then blindly copy-pastes shit from box…

Someone has an axe to grind..

Re: How A Great Product Can Be Bad News: Apple, iPad, and the Closed Mac

#200
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's unfortunate that the system they want comes with apair of handcuffs. I guess there is nothing wrong with it if you don't notice it.

Restrictions only matter when they limit you from doing things you want to do. For the vast majority of consumers, the closed nature of the iPad isn't a restriction, it's a convenience. We need to understand that the average HN reader is not the target market here. We're generally more technical and are willing to tolerate more complexity and maintenance in return for a greater level of freedom over our software and…

As I've mentioned in my original post I understand it. I was just clarifying to a reply as to why I'm not happy with it.
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