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Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

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Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#191

Post by judk »

twblalock wrote: post #70
developer1 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absurd that 24 mph in a 35 zone is considered "too slow". This is nearly equivalent to driving 40 km/h in a 60 km/h zone, and there is not a single traffic court in any Canadian city that would uphold a ticket being served for that difference. How is this even a thing down there? In a 60 km/h zone here, you'd have to be going 25 km/h to even warrant being pulled over at all (ie: doing 15 mph in 37 mph zone). If…

In Mountain View, 24 in a 35 zone will cause traffic jams and road rage. It's a busy place.

And a large part of this is Mountain View's refusal to allow housing and deploy public transit, pushing people into becoming traffic.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#192

Post by lsaferite »

agumonkey wrote: post #62
fletchowns wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, if you aren't driving 5 mph over the speed limit, the car behind you is going to tailgate the hell out of you. It's ridiculous, I know.

I think it's universal behavior. Driving at speed limits gets you angry looks, below speed limit and people wanna hurt you. All that so they can reach the red light earlier.

I find myself hitting red lights by those precious few seconds the slow driver stole form me more often than not. I just want to get from A to B with as few interruptions as possible. A self-driving car would be... amazing and calm my stress levels greatly.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#193

Post by lsaferite »

Symbiote wrote: post #112
executesorder66 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck I hate it when people do that i.e. 99.99% of the time. Just go as soon as the person in front of you starts going and build your gap by accelerating slightly slower than the person in front of you _after_ you are on the other side of the traffic light.

Without having a gap before you start, how do you plan on stopping in time if the car in front stops suddenly? Which they might do if they see someone running the red light, or a pedestrian thinking there's just enough time to run across.

The needed gap is proportional to your speed. Starting speed from a stop is quite low so the gap needed is low. As you gain speed you expand the gap.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#194

Post by webjprgm »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #144
ThePhysicist wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if the vehicle is only able to drive 25 mph it is not allowed to drive on the freeway, otherwise one would need to allow tractors by the same argument. In most European countries there is a minimum speed requirement when driving on thr motorway (usually between 60 - 80 km/h), and sometimes there are even lane-specific speed limits (e.g. left lane requires at least 110 km/h). All that is only relevant if the t…

It was not driving on a freeway. It was going 25 in a 35 zone, taking one whole lane out of 3 in that direction. Shocking, SHOCKING! ;o) https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3955848,-122.1017317,3a,75y,...

El Camino is annoying enough to drive on that it really would be quite frustrating. Depending on the time of day.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#195

Post by TeMPOraL »

judk wrote: post #190
TeMPOraL wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to balance it against the amount of disutility from deaths caused by the line going at speed+5 on a road where they were supposed to be going at speed. You need to also add the disutility generated by that line fucking up traffic flow in the nearby area. Seriously, this stuff is to be determined from top down, not from perspective of individual self-interested drivers with zero context, little responsiblity…

How very undemocratic of you. Sometimes the law from top down is incorrect. The experiences of stakeholders matters.

> How very undemocratic of you.

Yes, it is. So what? Democracy is not a silver bullet. Some problems it solves well, others it can't tackle.

> Sometimes the law from top down is incorrect.

Sometimes it is. And sometimes it isn't. I argue this is a case where top-down approach is the right one.

> The experiences of stakeholders matters.

I think health and life of innocent third parties should matter more.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#196

Post by cyber »

eatmyshorts wrote: post #183
declan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! That MV police blog post says the traffic officer stopped the car to "educate the operators about impeding traffic per 22400(a) of the California Vehicle Code." That section of the vehicle code says, emphasis added: "No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of…

Well, the law also says "upon a highway"...which seems in line with my observations that I only ever see minimum speed limits posted on highways. It sounds to me like the google vehicle was in compliance with the law.

See CVC 360

"360. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street."

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&gr...

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#197

Post by cyber »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #144
ThePhysicist wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if the vehicle is only able to drive 25 mph it is not allowed to drive on the freeway, otherwise one would need to allow tractors by the same argument. In most European countries there is a minimum speed requirement when driving on thr motorway (usually between 60 - 80 km/h), and sometimes there are even lane-specific speed limits (e.g. left lane requires at least 110 km/h). All that is only relevant if the t…

It was not driving on a freeway. It was going 25 in a 35 zone, taking one whole lane out of 3 in that direction. Shocking, SHOCKING! ;o) https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3955848,-122.1017317,3a,75y,...

Yes, it was: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&gr... states:

"360. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street."

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d11/c...

"22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law."

Yes, shocking. (Also, El Camino is a State Route, I'll let you look that one up.)

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#198

Post by clort »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #195
judk wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How very undemocratic of you. Sometimes the law from top down is incorrect. The experiences of stakeholders matters.

> How very undemocratic of you. Yes, it is. So what? Democracy is not a silver bullet. Some problems it solves well, others it can't tackle. > Sometimes the law from top down is incorrect. Sometimes it is. And sometimes it isn't. I argue this is a case where top-down approach is the right one. > The experiences of stakeholders matters. I think health and life of innocent third parties should matter more.

I think that in reality, the innocent third parties concerned about their health and life on a road such as this are stakeholders. Moreover, there may be more of them so their needs would trump the few who simply wanted to drive fast and reach their destination 2 minutes earlier.

I'm not suggesting that the non drivers should always get their way though. There are roads where cars are allowed to be driven faster than this, and roads where pedestrians are not permitted.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#199

Post by cyber »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #138
nitrogen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of traffic is to run an economy, not to parade at a precise speed for the amusement of deontologically obsessed nannies. If a line of traffic wants to go at speed+5, then the proper speed of traffic is speed+5, and going speed-5 is causing economic harm.

You need to balance it against the amount of disutility from deaths caused by the line going at speed+5 on a road where they were supposed to be going at speed. You need to also add the disutility generated by that line fucking up traffic flow in the nearby area. Seriously, this stuff is to be determined from top down, not from perspective of individual self-interested drivers with zero context, little responsiblity…

Road speeds need to be re-evaluated every 5 years. They take into account the speeds of traffic that are currently flowing on the road.

Re: Google self-driving car pulled over for driving too slowly

#200

Post by amatus »

afarrell wrote: post #65
viraptor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to unfortunate phrasing, "no person" was driving at such slow speed ;)

Google, a subsidiary of Alphabet, was operating the car, no?

Is BMW operating my car when I turn on cruise control?
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