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Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

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Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#191

Post by incrediblebob »

Nadya wrote: post #146
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key thing is that I'm on neither side of the debate. I see merits to both sides and look for a way to work out both. Also, I like to work on arguments for any side even if I don't agree with that side (I have sometimes devil advocated for positions just because no one else would touch them). Personally, at the current time, I see too many problems with quotas for them to be useful. Namely is the perception proble…

So you're essentially where I stand then. :P I consider myself the "Milo" of transexuals and have a large disconnect with most people who consider themselves part of the "LGBT Movement". Many of which are right up there with PC culture (e.g telling me I can't use the word "tranny", even when referring to myself? Fuck off.) While I do see the problem and in many places agree - I do not agree with the proposed methods…

Please keep in mind, Milo's writing is tongue in cheek. It's generally agreed upon that Milo's writing is parody (ref: https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=twosc... ) . He's parodying Men's rights activists. He is like the Onion but harder to distinguish.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#192

Post by theorique »

mrbrowning wrote: post #167
paulddraper wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I wasn't aware of the decree that excluded Asians from white racism in school/work. Given the number of Asians in tech, it appears white racism is lacking.

This is a remarkably facile understanding of racism, one that ignores both the model minority phenomenon as well as the fact that Asians are significantly underrepresented in management positions in the tech industry [1]. 1. http://www.npr.org/2015/05/17/407478606/often-employees-rare...

There's probably a language factor involved as well. An otherwise brilliant programmer can scrape by with spotty English, but it's a lot harder for a founder or an executive.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#193

Post by theorique »

volaski wrote: post #54

What is wrong with the statement "We won't lower the bar"? Some people criticize that that statement is racist, but they aren't thinking about the context. When people ask companies to do something about diversity, they're normally asking to carve out more quota for certain minority group, just like how universities carve out certain portion of their student quota for people who donate large amount of money to get in…

What is wrong with the statement "We won't lower the bar"?

It is the legacy of the famous Griggs vs Duke Power case.

Requiring IQ tests to filter employees was found to have "disparate impact" with respect to different identifiable groups.

Silicon Valley does a lot of different IQ test proxies in order to filter their prospective employees in a hopefully-not-racist way: programming tests, seeking college degrees, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#194

Post by theorique »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #125
mazerackham wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Chinese, and I don't appreciate your attempt at pitting Asians against Blacks.

It isn't pitting any race at another. It is a real concern with quotas. One only needs to look at what an Asian needs to score on the SAT compared to what a Caucasian (no need to bring up other races) to see how it can become a problem.

A good reference on this phenomenon: http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-adv-asian-race...

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#195

Post by bduerst »

brbsix wrote: post #166
bduerst wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their entire argument is a cognitive dissonance with the facts. Even with non-violent drug use, rates are similar across all races yet blacks are measurably discriminated against in searches, arrests, and sentencing.

Rates for what? Rates for murder and violent crime are not similar across all races. They vary significantly. In order (from highest to lowest) they tend to be as follows: Black, Hispanic, White, Asian. Coincidentally (or not), IQ tends to follow the same pattern, from lowest to highest. Just looking at murder, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008. Looking at offenders per 100,000, it is…

>Rates for what?

Non-violent drug use - it's in the same sentence, come on.

Unlike drug use, violence is tied heavily to socioeconomic status and environment [1], which is only correlated with race, not caused by it [2]. You do know what cognitive dissonance is, right?

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449156/

[2] http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.74.8.8...

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#196

Post by bduerst »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #182
bduerst wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes correlated with gender, such as the gender income gap. I don't know what you mean by biological selection.

>Sometimes correlated with gender, such as the gender income gap. You mean the one that has been shown to not exist?

> "There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent."

- U.S. Department of Labor

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#197

Post by wpietri »

steven2012 wrote: post #65

I've been working for over 20 years in tech at 10+ different companies around the Valley, and I can count on 1 hand the number of direct coworkers that were black, and on 2 hands the number of coworkers that I indirectly worked with that were black. I don't believe this is due to any sort of racism, but rather due to the education system in general. Trying to solve the diversity issue at the hiring end, when the numb…

An actual black person in tech responds to points you and others make:

https://twitter.com/polotek/status/662312638324469761

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#198

Post by steven2012 »

peterwwillis wrote: post #184
sokoloff wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not clear what you would have a hiring manager do today . I usually have several positions open at any given time; I don't even recall the last black applicant we've seen. I have talented co-workers of many different races (specifically including black), but even without visiting our office, you could guess the percentage breakdown and you wouldn't be far off. I can't hire applicants that don't exist and I…

The reason why you're not getting black applicants may include: - It's hard to get hired by white companies, so a lot of black people stay within black-owned companies and communities. - There are a lot of ways to search for and hire applicants; waiting for people to come to you will not necessarily result in the best candidate. - Transportation is not as easy or available for poor or rural communities. It may be nec…

You sound like someone who hasn't ever tried to hire people in Silicon Valley.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#199

Post by steven2012 »

wpietri wrote: post #197
steven2012 wrote: post #65

I've been working for over 20 years in tech at 10+ different companies around the Valley, and I can count on 1 hand the number of direct coworkers that were black, and on 2 hands the number of coworkers that I indirectly worked with that were black. I don't believe this is due to any sort of racism, but rather due to the education system in general. Trying to solve the diversity issue at the hiring end, when the numb…

An actual black person in tech responds to points you and others make: https://twitter.com/polotek/status/662312638324469761

Unless I misread it, I didn't read a single thing that will help a black person today get hired.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#200

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

peterwwillis wrote: post #183
x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the fix is to lower hiring standards? What exactly are you promoting as a fix here?

A "fix"? This isn't a compile-time error. This is the total disenfranchisement of entire classes or groups of people. There is no patch. The "fix" involves lots of difficult work. First, we have to get people like you to understand what the problem is, which apparently is difficult to do. Then, we have to build empathy for the problems facing black people so you want to actually help them. Then we have to invest in d…

I understand the problem to be way beyond hiring in tech, so I'm trying to understand why lack of diversity in tech is being blamed on the tech community.
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