HP to cut 25-30k jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#191

Post by VLM » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 1:49 PM UTC

IndianAstronaut wrote: post #62

wpietri wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing the math on this, they apparently believe that each one of those people is costing the company $108k per year, net. Given that HP's revenue per employee is ~$350k, I find those numbers simply unbelievable. And let's suppose for a second that HP is somehow right. How did they just notice that 10% of their employees are doing something totally worthless? On top of the 55,000 employees that they laid off in 2012?…

> There's also the classic MBA mistake of seeing employees as expenses rather than assets. Not to mention that more critical people will leave once they sniff layoffs coming.

This is not exactly HPs first layoff. Its been a dying company for quite some time. There is no hope of a turnaround and has not been for some time.

Everyone in the Venn diagram of willing to jump ship and able to jump ship, has already jumped. All you've got left is people unwilling to jump, unable to jump, or both. Those unwilling will continue to be unwilling for whatever reasons, if the last layoff round didn't snap them out, then this will also fail. Those unable to jump will continue to be unable.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#192

Post by Angostura » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #168

reuven wrote: post #135

My first job, when I finished college in 1992, was at HP. They hesitated to offer me a job, because they said that when HP offers someone a position, they're basically offering them a job for life. Sure, you can snicker at that comment, since almost no company would (or can, or should) make such a claim nowadays. But people told me that before I got there, in the mid-1980s, there were big problems at the company. Rat…

I just think it's the wrong way to look at things. It's better to cut 30,000 to save the company, than to keep everyone hired and wait for every employee to be out of work.

It depends. If you are pretty sure that this is temporary revenue issue, with identified reasons, and know that you will need all your employees in 12 months time, it may be worth to ask for salary cuts.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#193

Post by drzaiusapelord » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

emp_zealoth wrote: post #63

joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

Wow. Rant incoming. Im just aghast how shitty your country is. I can understand living in fear of mortgages and the like, jak with at will nonsense and the like ( gags ) But your employer having a gun to your beloved's head - that what it basically is - is just rotten. I genuinely wish that any libertarians here (in Poland) move to USA or, Friedmans beloved, Chile. I hope they get to experience shit like that. I gues…

>Im just aghast how shitty your country is.

We have a lot of social programs for the poor, especially in regards to health. No its not Euro-style universal healthcare, but this idea that they'll starve in the streets if they lose their jobs is ridiculous. That's on top of COBRA, which allow you to stay on your employers plan for a bit while you work out a new provider. Or subsidized ACA exchange insurance. We are down to 11% uninsured right now. In the 90s we were getting close to hitting 20%.

There's a lag period before you can apply for and get benefits, but that's what unemployment insurance (which is mandatory) is for and you know... your own savings. You are putting away savings right?

The real problem here is that I find most middle-class people have no idea how welfare works. None. They've never had to apply for these things. They just think they're for "welfare queens" and "drug addicts." They don't realize that these programs are pretty much everywhere in the USA. For example, food stamps are mostly used by white people. So these people have unrealistic ideas of what loss of income means. They think they're going to debtors prison and being forced to die in their basements from lack of healthcare. Europeans like yourself buy into this nonsense because they have an anti-US bone to pick. The reality is that you're both being incredibly disingenuous. Perhaps you should do some basic research before making these shoddy generalizations?

Its also worth mentioning that every HP product we use is fairly terrible. All of our servers, printers, etc. A lot of sysadmins I've talked to are either considering moving to Dell or already have moved. These jobs are going to migrate to Dell or elsewhere I imagine. That's how competition works. Yeah, its ugly, but HP has not been competitive for some time in many areas. You can't expect a lifetime of labor without shake-ups, especially in the volatile tech sector.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#194

Post by shaung » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #30

jfoutz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if he's such an entrepreneur or risk-taker. Some people are, some people aren't. It's a natural thing. I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers (there must be some), but... he could definitely "get the band together" and pull off such a feat. Again, I think this goes back to the contracts he had. He's on…

An additional idea to supplement income while building his business or looking for a new job would be to join an expert network. Consultants/investors can pay upwards of $1000/hour to speak with industry veterans across all different functions.

Some examples: GLG (Gerson Lehrman Group) Cognolink AlphaSights

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#195

Post by alistproducer2 » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 2:06 PM UTC

I work for a big company that uses HP software. It's horrible. If HP is anything like the company I work, HP is full of people getting free money for showing up and doing nothing.

My thing is, if you know you are getting free money you have to expect it to end at some point. Have a contingency plan.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#196

Post by drzaiusapelord » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 2:09 PM UTC

emj wrote: post #100

wyclif wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chile is a far stronger economy than Poland will probably ever be.

Is this a joke? Poland has a larger population than chile, better per capita GDP, and is a power house in the middle of Europe. They do still have some internal problems but this is nothing compared to the (low key) international conflicts Chile still is involved in. I love both countries though.

GDP per capita is higher in Chile and has 2-3x the growth Poland has.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#197

Post by ido » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 2:13 PM UTC

emp_zealoth wrote: post #63

joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

Wow. Rant incoming. Im just aghast how shitty your country is. I can understand living in fear of mortgages and the like, jak with at will nonsense and the like ( gags ) But your employer having a gun to your beloved's head - that what it basically is - is just rotten. I genuinely wish that any libertarians here (in Poland) move to USA or, Friedmans beloved, Chile. I hope they get to experience shit like that. I gues…

I am wondering about using Chile as another example - as far as I know they have public healthcare?

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#198

Post by drzaiusapelord » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #81

wpietri wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing the math on this, they apparently believe that each one of those people is costing the company $108k per year, net. Given that HP's revenue per employee is ~$350k, I find those numbers simply unbelievable. And let's suppose for a second that HP is somehow right. How did they just notice that 10% of their employees are doing something totally worthless? On top of the 55,000 employees that they laid off in 2012?…

And let's suppose for a second that HP is somehow right. How did they just notice that 10% of their employees are doing something totally worthless? The keyword to search for in the economic literature is "labor hoarding". In short, companies tend to (by default) keep employees until well after they are no longer useful. Then some sort of a shock causes the company to shed the deadwood all at once. This is management…

Not to mention politics. Its ugly to lose this many people and job creation and protection is often encouraged by the government via incentive programs. If HP opened an office in some state and got a shit-ton of tax incentive and federal job creation credits, well, those pay off for a while. After those expire then its safe to cut these people. Or use the threat of cuts to get more credits. If these negotiations fail, then a big cut happens.

Big companies don't really operate by simple supply vs demand laws. They play a much more complex game and many large businesses have long figured that gaming the system is just as profitable as actually shipping product.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#199

Post by marktangotango » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #115

joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

"Who would hire him at this age, with this kind of experience?" This is a question that only the market can answer. While we can speculate all day long, none of us have any idea who would hire him or not. One thing is a certainty: if he never tries to get another job, he will not get any. Here's something I learned from watching hundreds or perhaps thousands of folks navigate the tech labor market: people skills and…

Networking is so important. Just be pleasant and easy to work with. I see so many young devs who get so involved in code related pissing matches, debating irrelavant crap in the work place, being arrogant and difficult. A lot of guys I never want to work with again.

True story, former employer had a lay off, the company I was at sent me an email with a list of everyone who had been laid off asking me (I was in good standing, and respected) who we should go after. You bet I black listed the jerks, and got the guys I considered to be good developers, and easy to work with.

Sure this was all my opinion and who am I anyway? But the point is: this stuff happens, and all you guys who think it doesn't are kidding yourselves.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#200

Post by deskamess » Wed, Sep 16, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

A lot of people have given advice. I like the one about striking out with his own team. He is going to be scared. If you can be there for him in some way it will be great. Do you have a job where you can be with him for 1 weekend a month? Just be there to talk things out, help him, be able to ask for advice (like here on HN) when neither of you have answers. Be his on-call. He absolutely has to do it soon/now for himself and family (healthcare). He has the clients which are always the toughest to get, but he has to start the process now (incorporation, etc).

I know you said you do not have the best relationship, but you recognize he is human. You have compassion. He is family. I want your Dad to succeed. I am sure others in this thread do too.