A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers • Hacker News Board

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#191

Post by mixmastamyk » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 6:25 AM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #89

ownagefool wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know these people exist but it's whether or not they're common enough for your better than average tech to land and whether it requires actual technical knowledge or just good salesmanship. I imagine it's a mixture of both, but that if I wasn't a contractor, I'd probably feel it's easier to get paid more by going tech -> team leader -> manager.

I've never heard it suggested that these best-of-the-best types of positions should be attainable by "your better than average tech." If your biggest asset is that you are "better than average" I think even hoping for a generic Senior Software Developer type of position is ambitious.

You'd be surprised how mediocre many of people at the top of companies are, technical track or not.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#192

Post by shellbye » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

Long article but really a good one.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#193

Post by spacecowboy_lon » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 1:52 PM UTC

plonh wrote: post #54

spacecowboy_lon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Steve McConnell (code complete) suggest that managing up should be a firing offence.

What? Why? That's insane.

Ill have to reread my copy of rapid software devlopment but i think it was the toxic effect on the team.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#194

Post by joeevans1000 » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC

Lol... who the fuck wants to manage instead of code? I guess if you're burning out and seriously paranoid you won't be worth a fuck as a coder, you have to go in the management direction.

But the joy of where things are headed -- and what technology is increasingly enabling -- is that we can finally get rid of managers.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#195

Post by gaius » Wed, Aug 05, 2015, 7:33 PM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #12

"Don’t manage only to advance your career. Many tech companies have parallel career paths to seniority for both technical and managerial high-performers." Is this really true? Many engineers do become managers only to advance their careers. The "parallel" technical career path never seems to deliver equal amounts of power, or even money, as compared to managers on the same level. Even when a rough parity exists on pa…

At one previous job, they tried the "technical career track" scam, but the most senior engineer still reported to the most junior manager.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#196

Post by gaius » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 4:53 AM UTC

jerf wrote: post #88

Ensorceled wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, most of the superstars are "architects" who can both come up with excellent technical plans and then socialize/communicate them. I have a had a few "put on head phones and pump out 5 developers worth of excellent code" types as well.

I'm continuing to wander slowly but surely into more architecture roles, and while the term has fully justifiably been badly wrecked by people doing "architecture" who think it involves drawing diagrams with lots of boxes and lines and never checking the architecture against the requirements, there is a legitimate architecture role that does exist and there are legitimate skills that are specialized to that role. I'm…

You can't be a software architect without extensive experience as a software engineer first, at least 10 years, more like 20. At a previous job, you could go straight into architecture as a graduate on the "fast track". The architecture group at that company went on to produce many epic 500-page documents that no-one ever read, and one day they were all laid off... And no-one noticed.

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#197

Post by gaius » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 3:25 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #73

anotherdatem wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a VP at a mid-sized ($100mm revenue) startup. I report to the CTO, and am his probable successor. I make slightly less than our highest paid engineer. I would recommend finding a company with a true parallel track, rather than dedicating yourself to a job that you don't want, and thus likely won't ever be great at.

What industry is that? In companies I have seen it's a matter of principle that an engineer can't make as much money as managers. They would lay off the best engineer in the world before giving him as much money as they make.

It's the old class system, an engineer is "blue collar" (no matter where he want to school) and a manager is "white collar".

Of course engineers don't help themselves at all with all the open-source "software should be free" and feel-good "anyone can learn to code" stuff they come out with. If you won't put a cash value on your work, why would they?

Re: A Plan to Turn Engineers into Managers

#198

Post by dwmtm » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

msravi wrote: post #155

dwmtm wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any meaningful sense in which a tech-tracker has more official or unofficial access to information?

Sorry, it's late here and my brain is just unable to parse your sentence. Are you asking if it matters if the information is gained officially or unofficially?

I'm asking if managerial information is a strict superset of engineer information. Control of admin passwords to software seems useless or illegal w.r.t. the concept of information here.