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An Analysis of Nespresso

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Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#181

Post by josteink »

keithpeter wrote: post #13
cdcarter wrote: post #5

"Speciality coffee doesn’t offer anything to the consumer who wants to drink great espresso at home, but doesn’t want a new hobby." This is an amazing take away, and I think many coffee roasters, gin distillers and beer Brewers ought remember it.

I take the OA's point, however most of us (I assume) will be using a cafetiere or a paper filter based coffee maker at home rather than doing the full artisan roast and grind. In my case, I'm using pre-ground coffee in foil bags from the local supermarket at around £3 to £4 per 227g standard pack. I make myself a large diluted coffee each morning using a 3-cup mokapot. The 5 minute prep time isn't onerous and the eco…

> Coffee hacking question: If I got a grinder capable of grinding beans to the fineness needed for a moka pot, would I notice a significant difference in taste?

Coffee starts losing aroma quickly after grinding. If you buy your coffee in a speciality-store and they grind it for you there, you can definitely smell the freshness of the coffee as you take it home.

It's fantastic, but after not too long that fresh aroma dissipates, and wont return. Imagine if all that aroma could have gone right into your cup.

With a proper grinder at home, you always grind the coffee you need, when you need it. And you will have all that aroma in every single cup.

Besides the digital weight, I think a proper coffee-grinder is one of the most important things a proper coffee-geek can have.

You probably don't need nor want an Italian art-deco piece of 60s futuristic polished steel priced at $1000 and upwards. But investing at least $100 into a entry-level grinder will get you coffee miles ahead that pre-ground stuff. I assure you it's a noticeable return on investment.

So yeah. Grinder is definitely recommended.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#182

Post by pconner »

xsace wrote: post #169
kaolinite wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean the amount of water you use? It's important to measure both the amount of water and the amount of coffee so it's consistent. I personally use 22 grams of coffee per 300ml. It's a personal choice though and it depends on the coffee and method of brewing too: for you that might be too bitter, too strong, too weak, etc. Here's what I do with a Chemex. I put the Chemex on the scales, add the filter and hit ta…

Oh I was speaking about the water itself. Do you filter or use bottle one?

You should use filtered (but not distilled) water to make coffee. This slows down scale buildup in the machine.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#183

Post by toothbrush »

bambax wrote: post #52
cmarschner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So French people are ok buying coffee for €90 a kilo to get this convenience? I can understand this only because traditionally, the French "Expresso" was guaranteed to be a watery, bitter, creama-less wish-wash.

Expressos you get in Cafés are usually good, if a little bitter (and not comparable to what you can get in Italy). But coffee people made at home used to be, in my own experience and opinion, an abomination. Never hot enough, never strong enough. The truth is, everyone wants something different (decaf, strong, stronger, lighter...) The miracle of Nespresso is that you can serve different cups to different people, at…

> Expressos you get in Cafés are usually good, if a little bitter (and not comparable to what you can get in Italy).

That's really not my experience. I've found it consistently hard to find proper espresso in cafés in France; one usually needs to find the one place teeming with bearded hipsters (unfortunately), and you might be lucky to get an acceptable (not excellent) espresso.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#184

Post by kaolinite »

xsace wrote: post #169
kaolinite wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean the amount of water you use? It's important to measure both the amount of water and the amount of coffee so it's consistent. I personally use 22 grams of coffee per 300ml. It's a personal choice though and it depends on the coffee and method of brewing too: for you that might be too bitter, too strong, too weak, etc. Here's what I do with a Chemex. I put the Chemex on the scales, add the filter and hit ta…

Oh I was speaking about the water itself. Do you filter or use bottle one?

Oh right, I've not actually tried altering the water - I really should give it a go sometime. I just use tap water - the water in my area is ok. That's another one of those things that may make a bit of a difference, but nowhere near the difference that getting good coffee and measuring properly will make. Of course, if you're already doing both of those then there's no reason to give it a go. Thanks for the idea.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#185

Post by mikekchar »

kaolinite wrote: post #161

When people decide they want to start making good coffee, they often go and spend the best part of $500, or more, on an expensive espresso machine. I did, anyway. I've found though that the two biggest ways to improve your coffee are really simple and really cheap. Anything else above this - an expensive grinder or coffee machine - may help, but nowhere near as much as these two things: 1. Get a pair of digital scale…

I think you will rethink many of these ideas once you start roasting your own beans. Many optimisations are highly dependent upon the bean itself, the roast level, the quality of the roast (for example how well you controlled the temperature as you get to first crack).

A quick word about bloom: if you are doing pour overs with beans that are not too old, how long you let the coffee bloom can have a dramatic effect on flavour. The problem you are running into is the coffee you are using, I think. I really like Pact, but I never once received coffee that was less than 4 days old. Often it was 7-8 days old. Looking at the web site for Limini seems to indicate the same. They are optimising for people who want a fire and forget method of coffee making and don't know how to control the acidity of the coffee they are making.

Once you start roasting your own you will probably discover (as I did) that the most interesting time for a coffee bean is between 2 and 8 days. The most consistently good is probably 6-10 days. Once you get over 10 days, there is very little you can do with brewing skill and it's just an inevitable decline in flavour over time.

All of those optimisations that you think don't have an effect are very important, but you are using old coffee beans and therefore haven't realised it yet.

But as the topic of the article says, all of this is only important if you are interested in having a new hobby. You can make consistently decent coffee with moderately old beans and using a consistent approach such as you describe. But since you are interested in roasting, I hope you take the next step! It really is an eye opener.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#186

Post by jimbobimbo »

xsace wrote: post #169
kaolinite wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean the amount of water you use? It's important to measure both the amount of water and the amount of coffee so it's consistent. I personally use 22 grams of coffee per 300ml. It's a personal choice though and it depends on the coffee and method of brewing too: for you that might be too bitter, too strong, too weak, etc. Here's what I do with a Chemex. I put the Chemex on the scales, add the filter and hit ta…

Oh I was speaking about the water itself. Do you filter or use bottle one?

I buy bottled. The taste is better and consistent. If you go this route, make sure to try different brands (they use different water sources, so the taste will vary).

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#187

Post by cvosteen »

athenot wrote: post #136
moron4hire wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flavor and taste are fundamentally linked, so if something smells better, it's pretty much the same thing as tasting better.

That's not a given, though. Take some French cheeses which stink unbelievably bad yet have a smooth, creamy & almost sweet taste. The disconnect can be quite surprising. I'm told that Durian fruit can be similar but I have not encountered that monster… yet. :)

When you decide to try Durian, my recommendation is to freeze it. When you take it out of the freezer to eat it, it will be creamy and sweet while minimizing the odor.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#188

Post by [deleted] »

cdcarter wrote: post #5

"Speciality coffee doesn’t offer anything to the consumer who wants to drink great espresso at home, but doesn’t want a new hobby." This is an amazing take away, and I think many coffee roasters, gin distillers and beer Brewers ought remember it.

[deleted]

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#189

Post by peapicker »

peter_l_downs wrote: post #176
kaolinite wrote: post #161

When people decide they want to start making good coffee, they often go and spend the best part of $500, or more, on an expensive espresso machine. I did, anyway. I've found though that the two biggest ways to improve your coffee are really simple and really cheap. Anything else above this - an expensive grinder or coffee machine - may help, but nowhere near as much as these two things: 1. Get a pair of digital scale…

This is all right. In my experience the biggest thing really is the coffee. I've been buying from http://www.coffeebeandirect.com/ , you should check it out – their beans are really good and somehow extremely cheap ($53 for a 5 pound bag of Kenyan AA).

I would never by more than 1 lb roasted at a time. Top-level coffee from every local roaster I've tried really starts to taste more oxidized and old after 21 days out of the roast, and I can't do more than a pound in that time frame. My current local roaster roasts often enough that I usually get my bean 2-3 days after roast, which is my preference for the end of post-roast out-gassing.

Re: An Analysis of Nespresso

#190

Post by kaolinite »

mrestko wrote: post #168
kaolinite wrote: post #161

When people decide they want to start making good coffee, they often go and spend the best part of $500, or more, on an expensive espresso machine. I did, anyway. I've found though that the two biggest ways to improve your coffee are really simple and really cheap. Anything else above this - an expensive grinder or coffee machine - may help, but nowhere near as much as these two things: 1. Get a pair of digital scale…

I think one scale is enough...

Heh, you're right. That is a weird expression when applied to digital scales: a pair of scales makes sense for the old style[1], but doesn't really apply with digital.

[1] https://mundabor.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/scales.gif

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