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A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

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Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#181

Post by wodenokoto »

fgsfdsfgsfds wrote: post #125
egypturnash wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ex-animator from the US here. Most Western animation has historically been done at 12fps ("on twos"); you go to 24fps for very fast motion or stuff you want to be super-smooth. This holds even in big-budget 2D theatrical features[1]. You will also find no small amount of super-stylized motion - dig up "The Dover Boys" (dir. Chuck Jones), commonly cited as the first cartoon to experiment with the smears, multiple imag…

Thank you for sharing your experience. Pencil mileage is a great way to sum up the difference between the two traditions. Sorry for sounding so down on Western animation; it's true that I'm more used to the look of Eastern animation, having invested much more time invested in it (hence my mistake about Western films animating on ones vs. twos; it's been a while since I watched one of the classic Western animated film…

What great 2D animation is left? Ghibli stopped producing features (or put it on hold) and Disney, and everybody else in the US moved to 3D

I was thoroughly impressed Knights of Sidionia on Netflix, and though it can match some feature animation, it is still far from Ghibli/Disney. And it isn't even 2D!

The other day someone posted a gallery from Ghost in the Shell on Reddit and I thought "When was the last time we saw art like this on the big screen?"

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#182

Post by dragontamer »

JohnBooty wrote: post #167
dragontamer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The artists of SF4 definitely took a bold direction; the SF4 games don't really look like any other 3D fighting games. The characters are cartoonish without falling back on the crutch of cel shading; they're realistic without looking like drab psuedo-photo-realism. To me they look like childrens' action figures, fighting it out on the screen. Actually, Arc System Works ironically was the one who pushed the envelope…

I wasn't impressed with Battle Fantasia's animation at all. I thought it was kind of poor, actually, compared to other 360/PS3 efforts like the Soul Calibur games of the day. That's not to say you're wrong; we just had very different impressions of it. What animation techniques are you referring to when you talk about Battle Fantasia's innovations? (I'm not an animator; I'm surely missing some things there)

Again, Battle Fantasia was a learning project for Arc System Works. It was never meant to be an advanced artform. Which is why it is deeply ironic that almost all modern 2D fighting games using 3d art are based on Battle Fantasia camera mechanics.

Compare the super-attack animations between SF4 and Battle Fantasia. And note the following similarities:

1. The 'Super Zoom' that changes the camera angle, to focus on the character performing the super-attack. 2. The 'freeze frame' mechanics: which "pause" all other 3D animations while the super-attack user remains fully animated. 3. The way the background melts into a new environment, and then melts back into the stage as the super-attack either hits the opponent... or misses.

True, SF4 has better character models, better backgrounds, and better animations. But the camera mechanics were all invented and pioneered by Battle Fantasia.

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#183

Post by bitwize »

I love pixel art.

And I'm going to keep making games with pixel art. Why? Not because I want to evoke retro nostalgia. Simply because the asset pipeline is easier to manage. I avail myself of high resolutions and millions of colors, but even with those you can create great pixel art even in a simple paint program and from there it is easy to load into a game and draw on the screen. Plus, well done pixel art reads incredibly clearly -- compare pixelated Mario with the 3D-rendered, mushy Mario used in Mario vs. Donkey Kong.

For 2D gaming pixel art gets the job done and requires minimal tooling and middleware. That's why I love it.

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#184

Post by oconnor0 »

Udo wrote: post #159
nyolfen wrote: post #68

“Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distort…

This reminded me of Ludum Dare right now, because the rankings for the most recent jam are just in: the top 100 is almost exclusively comprised of faux 8bit games. I don't mind the graphics so much, usually, because they are only retro to a point, and they do tend to cheat in places that enable the end results to be pretty. But if you look at the top 100 of sound/music rankings, almost all of those are absolutely jar…

Yes, the same thing is present in Android games. It's "pixel art", but the "pixels" aren't all the same size - like some parts the art is clearly 4x compared to some other bits - and then it's intermixed with high-res effects (lighting, gradients, flares, etc.)

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#185

Post by JohnBooty »

dragontamer wrote: post #182
JohnBooty wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't impressed with Battle Fantasia's animation at all. I thought it was kind of poor, actually, compared to other 360/PS3 efforts like the Soul Calibur games of the day. That's not to say you're wrong; we just had very different impressions of it. What animation techniques are you referring to when you talk about Battle Fantasia's innovations? (I'm not an animator; I'm surely missing some things there)

Again, Battle Fantasia was a learning project for Arc System Works. It was never meant to be an advanced artform. Which is why it is deeply ironic that almost all modern 2D fighting games using 3d art are based on Battle Fantasia camera mechanics. Compare the super-attack animations between SF4 and Battle Fantasia. And note the following similarities: 1. The 'Super Zoom' that changes the camera angle, to focus on the…

Hasn't the zoom thing been around forever? It goes back at least as far as Rival School and probably earlier games I can't remember - I think Soul Edge did it too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb5rTtSrP3E

Rival Schools also changed the background during supers/knockouts, although it was just "fade to blacks" and 2D overlays rather than a new environment. But looking at this video of Battle Fantasia supers (been so long since I played it!) that's all that game did as well:

https://youtu.be/3TXk38j1wUc

The "freeze other animations while the super move executes" thing is such a minor stylistic thing that I'm having trouble really thinking of it as an innovation and to boot... is that even what Battle Fantasia does? I mean look at this super: the steam in the background is still animating:

https://youtu.be/3TXk38j1wUc?t=115

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#186

Post by bitwize »

Tyr42 wrote: post #85
dragontamer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you have a point (and I've given you a +1 vote because of it), the fact remains that the "average person" I know thinks that Street Fighter 4 animations were better than Street Fighter 3. The Chun Li discussion happens a lot in my circle of friends, and I'm always in the minority. Very few people appreciate classic pixel art.

So, if we look to the digital art like Pixar, there are a lot of guidelines from traditional animation to make a scene come alive. * Squish and Stretch * Fallow through * Secondary Action These principles really help make dynamic scenes. If you look at the Chun Li animations, you can see that the older one does a better job of using these. I feel like if the HD version took advantage of these, it would look the best…

John Kricfalusi always laughs at and criticizes Pixar animation. Mainly because he's a hipster (even looks and dresses the part) who wants to go back to the good ole days of Bob Clampett, Chuck Jones, Tex Avery, etc. For most Pixar or other 3D animated productions, there just isn't enough squash and stretch or exaggeration to appeal to old time animation enthusiasts.

I think it's possible though. It's been done to a limited extent in video games: note how Link's sword arm and sword grow when he takes a swing in Wind Waker.

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#187

Post by pshc »

biot wrote: post #119
TylerE wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't, that's BS. No one prefers the sound of MP3. Vinyl sounds better not because of some alleged "distortion", either.

See: http://web.archive.org/web/20090804164014/http://i.gizmodo.c... Students were asked to judge the quality of a variety of compression methods randomly mixed with uncompressed 44.1 KHz audio. The music examples included both orchestral, jazz and rock music. When I first did this I was expecting to hear preferences for uncompressed audio and expecting to see MP3 (at 128, 160 and 192 bit rates) well below other meth…

Oh my god. I remember that "sizzle." That's the perfect way to put it!

... It is not missed.

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#188

Post by brymaster »

mrob wrote: post #92
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Huge blocky pixel art never really looked that way in the first place Some did. For instance, I played games like LucasArts adventure games and WarCraft 1 on a Mac with a Trinitron display, which faithfully showed the blocks in all their glory. I imagine the experience was similar for other PC games. Not all pixel art was made for NTSC TVs.

The article even shows a screenshot from Link's Awakening, which was intended to be displayed on an LCD with sharp pixels.

Except that Game Boy games didn't look like that screenshot either. The point being that programmers and artists took advantage of the screens (be it a handheld LCD or CRT television) to compliment their artwork and achieve effects they couldn't pull off by their pixels alone.

One can see a Cg shader here that attempts to recreate the look of an actual Game Boy screen, complete with several characteristics including motion blur and contrast settings:

http://filthypants.blogspot.com/2013/04/customizing-harlequi...

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#189

Post by karmakaze »

The 'depixelize' reference [1] is an MS page with samples. I mostly find the hq4x (upto 8x) then EPX most pleasing. The 'Ours' (presumably meaning MS/Xbox) makes everything look like Inuit art completely losing any original sense.

[1] http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kopf/pixelart/...

Re: A Pixel Artist Renounces Pixel Art

#190

Post by cpeterso »

gavanwoolery wrote: post #83
the_af wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me personally, I think that good pixel art is timeless (emphasis on "good") Agreed about the timelessness. I find good pixel art more timeless than other forms of good videogame art. I thought about it and I think it's actually a case of abstractness, not pixelation. Pixel art is often more abstract. Another example of good non-pixelated game art that has this same quality is Another World 's, which I find awes…

Another World's style is making a comeback in a way, with the low-poly movement (not identical, but along the same lines). See below if you don't know what style I am referring too: https://www.google.com/search?q=low+poly&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHF...

Nice. The low poly style looks like the design pendulum swinging from harsh Minecraft cubism back to a middle ground.
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