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French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

lemonde.fr

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Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#181

Post by Lawtonfogle »

MidnighToker wrote: post #170
jackjeff wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption won't solve the problem. 1/ They're after the meta data. Whether you have plaintext or encrypted communication, they still know to whom you talk. Unless you use TOR or VPN yourself out of the country, it's not going to help... 2/ Strict key disclosure laws. You can be thrown to jail, if you cannot decrypt some information when requested by a judge. That's true even in the case where you can prove the key i…

> 2/ Strict key disclosure laws. You can be thrown to jail, if you cannot decrypt some information when requested by a judge. That's true even in the case where you can prove the key is no longer in your possession... How the heck is this supposed to work when TLS supports Diffe-Hellman?

It makes about as much sense as putting a poor person into debtors prison until they pay off their debt. Anyone who supports this is unethical.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#182

Post by LBarret »

pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Same here. I have written to my MP, try to call a few others. This is a sad show of incompetence and political irresponsibility.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#183

Post by Lawtonfogle »

cm2187 wrote: post #61
easytiger wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how democracy dies. We need a system of government that allows scientists and thinkers to have a weighted power balancing politicians. POliticians cannot be trusted by definition

No, you need direct democracy. With modern communications, there is no reason to organize frequent elections on key issues, like in Switzerland.

You might as well put those who control the media in charge and just skip the middleman then. News runs story "Tor is how pedophiles get access to your children, here is a line of a dozen different 'experts' explaining how." Tor is then made illegal.

I dare say that with enough media backing, I could get dihydrogen monoxide banned. It does kill a lot of children. It has been shown to be very important to terrorist. Companies like to put it in food unregulated because it lets them add mass for cheap.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#184

Post by rayiner »

cm2187 wrote: post #61
easytiger wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how democracy dies. We need a system of government that allows scientists and thinkers to have a weighted power balancing politicians. POliticians cannot be trusted by definition

No, you need direct democracy. With modern communications, there is no reason to organize frequent elections on key issues, like in Switzerland.

Direct democracy is what gave us lovely things like California's three-strikes law that puts people in prison for life for their third non-violent felony (voted in by public referendum 72-28).

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#185

Post by worklogin »

gerty wrote: post #3

French National Assembly has 577 delegates. According to Le Monde article, 25 voted for and 5 against. The rest, I suppose, didn't care to show up. This is beyond WTF. I am a client at OVH and Gandi and I hope they send a big FU to the French government and relocate. I am willing to pay a premium for that.

Does the French legislature not have Quorum requirements? That seems like a poor design.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#186

Post by hmsln »

deciplex wrote: post #96
eshowk wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the constitution of the 5th republic, there is no quorum rule nor a "recall" referendum at mid-term nor a prohibition of multi tenures. That's why we need to change to basic rules of the institutions. We need rules to avoid such democratic thefts in the future, rules written by the people, not the politics professionals. This is what citizen groups like "Mouvement pour la 6eme République" advocates for ( http://ww…

How's the constitution for the 6th one coming along?

It's not. There is some talk of a Sixth Republic during the presidential campaigns, generally from far-right or far-left parties, but the two main moderate parties do not want to hear about it.

French political life is characterized by a complete lack of impetus for change.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#187

Post by harshreality »

seszett wrote: post #166
maccard wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood this - why is it allowed that they don't show up for these votes? (Not just in france)

People do not have to have an opinion on everything, do they? It doesn't really work that way today, but in an ideal world I would find it good that the 30 people who understand computers vote while the 337 others abstain. Also, I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in France deputies usually have another job, you can't expect them to go to Paris on every wednesday to vote on things they don't even really…

It might also be 30 people who know nothing about computers but have an agenda.

The way to get informed votes on technical laws is to carefully and transparently construct councils or committees whose members are technically competent. Give those councils the power to vote on technical laws, binding the main legislature to the result of such votes.

You can't have a voting body without a quorum rule and say it's to allow the subset of the representatives who understand the subject matter to vote. That's unenforceable and will be abused for political purposes far more often than it's used because the few representatives voting are the ones who genuinely understand the proposed law.

Quorum rules are critical for basic sanity in operation of a governmental body charged with voting.

It's a pathetic excuse that they have other jobs, and they can't show up most of the time. A few U.S. States had that sentiment, and what they do is have the legislature meet only a few months every year or two.

There's no reason they couldn't have an online voting system for representatives, either. The intelligence agencies of France and FVEY can't skew the votes by breaking the cryptosystem used for online voting if the voting record is published and the representatives verify that their votes were counted correctly. One barrier to doing this is probably that on some issues, representatives don't want their votes recorded; they want voice votes. (I'm guessing France does that most of the time; the U.S. certainly does.)

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#188

Post by malka »

Fiahil wrote: post #57
pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Encrypting all communications is certainly the way to go. But, I wonder if we can make these systems completely inefficient by flooding them with false positives. Assuming we can figure out the patterns they are looking for in our communications, could this be a possible solution to force them to withdraw they "black boxes"?

people already did this with Echelon a decade ago. I remember people crafting sentences with specifics keywords such as 'bomb', 'explode', etc. that are totally inocuous in context, but were designed to trigger the algorithm.

Maybe i'll make my personnal server connect to random IP on port 80 to send data with such keywords.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#189

Post by nota_bene »

pikzen wrote: post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

If you want to use encrypted communication tools, but don't know if you can convince enough people in your network to join you, use this tool to activate your friends & family (to build critical mass): https://www.iWouldDo.it

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#190

Post by malka »

jackjeff wrote: post #135
Fiahil wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encrypting all communications is certainly the way to go. But, I wonder if we can make these systems completely inefficient by flooding them with false positives. Assuming we can figure out the patterns they are looking for in our communications, could this be a possible solution to force them to withdraw they "black boxes"?

Encryption won't solve the problem. 1/ They're after the meta data. Whether you have plaintext or encrypted communication, they still know to whom you talk. Unless you use TOR or VPN yourself out of the country, it's not going to help... 2/ Strict key disclosure laws. You can be thrown to jail, if you cannot decrypt some information when requested by a judge. That's true even in the case where you can prove the key i…

Are there encryption algorithm such that we could decrypt the payload with more than one key, but only with one key, the real one, it will return the true result, and other keys will return fake, but plausible result ?

something like 'hidden volumes' in TrueCrypt.

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