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Announcing the Surface 3

blog.surface.com

181–190 of 345 posts

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#181
post #91

So Windows RT is dead ? I'd say good riddance, it was just too closed. I remember having a family friend buying one of those devices and trying to install Chrome on it. Well, no luck, WinRT's closed policies won't allow that (and it's not a technical issue.). But their store policies will still allow fake "Chrome" apps packaging an IE webview.

> Well, no luck, WinRT's closed policies won't allow that (and it's not a technical issue.).

It's true that Microsoft doesn't allow alternative rendering engines on WinRT, but it is ARM instead of x86, so there is a technical component; Google would have to port Chrome.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#182

I wonder if the Atom x7 SoC combined with 4GB of memory can do a reasonable enough job at running Visual Studio 2013/2015 on the move. I expect it is a bit too much to ask.

I've run it on a dual-core Atom 1.6Ghz with 2GB of RAM on an old Thinkpad Tablet 2. It wasn't fast, but it ran. A quad-core Atom with 2GB of RAM can run Skyrim, so I would guess it would handle Visual Studio okay as long as you're not using it to compile a project the size of Windows Vista.

I've pretty much decided on getting one (the 4GB RAM version) if it gets positive reviews. The work I do in Visual Studio is fairly limited- not nearly the size you are alluding to- and I'm pretty heavy OneNote user which I am pretty stoked about to try out with the optional pen. If I could play the odd indie game on it that's even better.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#183
post #133
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't even use a computer that's less than 4 gb these days, especially once chrome gets it's grubby hands all over my RAM. Just running baseline I find that most windows systems take up about two GB of RAM, and after you load up chrome, word, whatever; it hits the 4GB+ range. I mean, we're starting to see phones with 2GB of ram, it's completely unacceptable for a modern tablet.

8 GB is absolute bare minimum in 2015 (I'd say 2012 but the world seems to disagree). I'd be very hesitant buying something today that didn't have 16 GB. Unfortunately that is quite hard to come by in the ultrabook range. But 2 GB? And maximum 4 ? Just kills me inside. Way to ruin the device.

Minimum for doing what?

My home workstation has 32GB and I can remote into that anytime I want from every device that I own, so I tend to lean on that.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#185
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you want to go pro, you would have to go with a Wacom Cintiq.

That's where we're coming from. She was using my Wacom Cintiq, but she's mainly comfortable working on the couch and she needs it for elaborate line drawings, rather than paintings (she works in education). The iPad just didn't work out because she's uses a special windows software for the whiteboards. So a Win 8 tablet with a digitizer seems like the perfect match, I'm just uncertain which tablet to buy.

Check out http://penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/surface-pro-3, they've fixed many of the problems gabe pointed out (helps that Lynwood is near Redmond). I suggest trying one at a store somewhere.

The 10" with an Ntrig might be a better bet because if it is more portable. Otherwise, not many win tablets still have styluses (especially the Wacom resistive kinds).

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it any different from from the Macbook versus Macbook Pro? Massively different devices. The odd duck out is the Surface RT line, which seems to be abandoned now, removing that confusion.

I don't think the MacBook [Pro] is a flattering comparison. Apple is rapidly falling away from their traditional simple and obvious product lines, and the current MacBook lineup is extremely confusing to a lot of people.

Having a new "MacBook" that's thinner than the "MacBook Air" is admittedly a bit weird, but it's a transition period. Once the price on the new one goes down, they'll drop the Air from the lineup, and it'll just be MacBook vs MacBook Pro again.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think it was trivial, but it's shockingly hard to do without using iTunes. For a person who frequents HN, that's extremely unintuitive. And iTunes is terrible, so that solution is out. It took me forever to realize that just because I can kinda-sorta interact with my iPhone as a storage device doesn't mean that it's even remotely going to actually behave as one. The whole process is infuriating if you go in exp…

iTunes is out? Well, that's a pointless constraint if I've ever seen one. Yes it's terrible software, but plenty of people run terrible software once in a blue moon because it's the only way to accomplish some task. Also, you say "For a person who frequents HN that's extremely unintuitive"... are you implying HN users are incapable of using google? That HN users are not aware that a locked-down Apple ecosystem means…

Specifically, I meant that usually there's a reasonable work-around. Something you can probe, inspect, and otherwise work with. In this case there really just isn't anything useful at a high level.

A better term might be it seems to violate the Law of Least Astonishment, but from the hacker perspective instead: I have a device that's really just spoofing acting like a storage device. There's a lot of side trips that normally can be taken to work around this, and each are the same sort of no-op, since it's not for real. This sort of thing was common for the old 'dumb' phones, but it seemed like it was because they were too dumb to behave properly; now here's a smart phone being dumb. It's a bit unexpected, at least for what seem like obvious things like "add mp3". But there we are. The whole time there's a feeling of "gosh, surely there's a better way" and there just really isn't: install iTunes and let it do whatever it wants, or you just don't get to put that mp3 on your phone.

And wanting to avoid installing iTunes isn't pointless. I mean, you may not see it, but there are certainly reasons not to. Heck, just failing to update iTunes was useful for a few years due to some odd DRM workarounds (mostly for a WinAmp addon that read iTunes music files). Besides, it's fairly invasive - you may only use it rarely, but it installs a couple services and tries to jump in when the phone connects (all can be administered, but it's a pain cleaning up that mess). While I've finally come to just tolerate it, I don't appreciate it.

(Perhaps I should use counterintuitive? I would hope that would get the same idea across without somehow triggering offense. The problem I'm describing is of expectation and should be orthogonal to intelligence. There's a lot of subjectivity to it, but no reason to take offense. Mindsets filter, so why would a hacker find the same things intuitive as your average user?)

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#188
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 2 GB, 64 GB model just looks painful to use. I've seen a lot of Windows installs use up more than 64 GB, in particular as WinSXS grows as more updates are installed (thus more duplicate DLLs are stored). If anyone asked me, I'd describe 128 GB as the "minimum" storage needed for Windows. And even then you aren't storing much if any user data on it. 4 GB is the minimum I'd run anything newer than Windows XP on. T…

I really can't even use a computer that's less than 4 gb these days, especially once chrome gets it's grubby hands all over my RAM. Just running baseline I find that most windows systems take up about two GB of RAM, and after you load up chrome, word, whatever; it hits the 4GB+ range. I mean, we're starting to see phones with 2GB of ram, it's completely unacceptable for a modern tablet.

> especially once chrome gets it's grubby hands all over my RAM

Have you considered switching to Firefox, which is a bit more conservative with memory usage? :)

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err I'm running Windows 8 on a 32Gb HP Stream 7. Heaps of music, and 3 movies, and the recovery partition and still have 17GB free. What causes your install to grow so much?

Windows Update mostly.

And you can clean that stuff up with the disk cleanup app. You don't need to retain those old install files forever.

Re: Announcing the Surface 3

#190

Actual product page: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/products/surface-3 And buy now page with tech specs: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/productI... Looks like $499 for 64GB storage and 2GB RAM, $599 for 128GB storage and 4GB of RAM (WiFi models; 4G LTE model pricing wasn't showing for me).

That 2 GB, 64 GB model just looks painful to use. I've seen a lot of Windows installs use up more than 64 GB, in particular as WinSXS grows as more updates are installed (thus more duplicate DLLs are stored). If anyone asked me, I'd describe 128 GB as the "minimum" storage needed for Windows. And even then you aren't storing much if any user data on it. 4 GB is the minimum I'd run anything newer than Windows XP on. T…

> I've seen a lot of Windows installs use up more than 64 GB

Windows installs themselves or with other software installed? The latter makes sense but I've never seen anywhere close in the former. 32GB would be a bad idea but 64GB I think is fine for the majority of people.

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