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A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

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Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#181

Post by morgante »

pjmlp wrote: post #161
morgante wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most likely I would have failed fizz buzz, given that if it wasn't for HN I would have never heard of it. If you required prior knowledge of Fizz Buzz to solve it successfully, you should absolutely never be hired to program anything.

I develop software since 1986, never needed such dummy tests to be hired. Companies choose employees, but employees can also chose companies which can recognize the value someone brings in, besides a few programming exercises on a sheet of paper done in 1 hour interview. As for Fizz Buzz, never bother coding it. I see no value.

> I develop software since 1986, never needed such dummy tests to be hired.

I've never personally had a FizzBuzz test, but I also have no doubts about my ability to solve it in my sleep.

I'm against trick interviews or algorithms quizzes, but FizzBuzz is again just establishing a ridiculously low baseline that you know the most essential aspects of programming. Someone a few weeks into CS 101 should be able to do it, so any professional developer who can't deserves to be immediately laughed out of the room.

FizzBuzz is only a "dummy test" in the sense that only dummies will fail it.

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#183

Post by dsuth »

bkcooper wrote: post #66
nabla9 wrote: post #29

Usually good books travel from English speaking world to other languages as translations. One of the masterpieces that has gone the opposite direction is: Mathematics: Its Content, Methods and Meaning (three volumes bound as one) by A. D. Aleksandrov, A. N. Kolmogorov, M. A. Lavrent'ev (18 authors total) http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Content-Methods-Meaning-Do... This book is really good companion for autodidacts…

This is a good book, although I agree with others that truly learning from it would be difficult. If you like this, another book you might really enjoy is the Princeton Companion to Mathematics .

This is an absolutely beautiful book, aesthetically, and does a good job of conveying some of the wonder of mathematics.

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#184

Post by rntz »

qmalxp wrote: post #117
jordanb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a similar boat as you. I went up through Calculus in school and hated it. Around 5 years ago I developed a strong interest in learning relevant applied math and have been enjoying it since. Some things I'd add: 1) Math is fun! If you have the aptitude and disposition to enjoy writing software you'll love working out math problems. They're little nuggets of mental stimulation that you can work on with just some…

Re: 4). As a pure mathematician, I would argue Calculus and Linear Algebra are the father and mother of pure math as well (okay maybe not logic).

Number theory. Set theory. Category theory. Combinatorics. Graph theory.

Linear algebra certainly has applications in some of the above. But I don't think that calculus & linear algebra can be fairly described as "father & mother" to these areas. (Am I wrong? I could be missing some connections; I'm not a mathematician.)

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#185

Post by dsuth »

mcmancini wrote: post #162
mcguire wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great many real, live engineers that I know would object to anyone calling themselves an engineer without a lot of study of the big three: statics, dynamics, and thermodynamics; not just general mathematics. It's one of the reasons I don't call myself an engineer. (But I do get to harsh on them a bit about not being professional programmers---their code isn't pretty.) The other reason, of course, is that the "softw…

Statics, dynamics, and thermo would seem to leave out EE's, wouldn't it?

Ironically, EE had by far the most maths and maths-related courses of the other degrees, at my Uni. But we were still required to study those ones, along with the civil and chemical engineers.

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#186

Post by corysama »

tunesmith wrote: post #175
jordanb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a similar boat as you. I went up through Calculus in school and hated it. Around 5 years ago I developed a strong interest in learning relevant applied math and have been enjoying it since. Some things I'd add: 1) Math is fun! If you have the aptitude and disposition to enjoy writing software you'll love working out math problems. They're little nuggets of mental stimulation that you can work on with just some…

I wish there were some sort of open-source prerequisite chain of what order to learn any subjects in. That's the hardest part of self-learning. Elon Musk had a reddit AMA recently where he was asked how he knows so much - he responded that he thought everyone had the capability of learning more than they thought, but that the key was to look at knowledge as a semantic tree. If you learn things in the wrong order, the…

You could do a lot worse that going here https://www.khanacademy.org/math to "Start your math adventure!" Khan has set up learning math as an RPG-style skill tree http://www.semko.nl/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/khan-map-half...

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#187

Post by dsuth »

engi_nerd wrote: post #76
vdnkh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm employed as a Software Engineer now but my degree is in ECE. The engineering curriculum at my university (Rutgers) was extremely math intensive. I didn't take a whole lot of software classes but I'm glad I did take all that math. I think it's dishonest to call yourself a Software Engineer and not have an engineering degree. Semantics, but I earned the title.

I understand where this feeling comes from. You worked hard to earn what is (or what should be) a title with prestige: engineer. I too worked hard to earn degrees in engineering. I try to live up to that title every day, and I'm sure you do, too. But my years of engineering experience have shown me that the title "Engineer" is really more about how you approach problems and what you do to solve them and less about de…

There's more to it than that. In most places, the title 'Engineer' is a legal entity. In Australia, signing off on a design as an engineer makes you legally responsible for guaranteeing that it has been correctly designed, and is safe for public use. This includes personal liability in the case that it fails (bridge, software, whatever), and can be shown that it was not designed according to appropriate standards, or what should 'reasonably' have been done.

So basically, don't call yourself an engineer unless you're willing to sign off on something, and be legally bound by it. This implies a strong background in problem solving and structured design processes, to remove as much risk (both personal and to the public) as possible, which is also vital to engineering.

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#188

Post by dsuth »

brational wrote: post #177
vdnkh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, an engineering degree is a guarantee that you know the important points of what it means to be an engineer. Ethics, engineering process, math, etc. When you get an engineering degree from a certified university, you are an engineer. It's a guarantee that (at one point, at least), you possessed the set of skills and knowledge determined by a board of professionals to be necessary for a career of engineering. Ot…

Since we're playing semantics, >When you get an engineering degree from a certified university, you are an engineer. That's not true. When you get a degree you have an engineering degree. When you get hired and employed as an engineer, you are an engineer. You have an engineering degree and I have a mathematics degree. Our employers hire people for engineer positions and call them such. If I were a professor of math,…

Since we're getting pedantic, once you are employed straight out of uni, you are still not an engineer. You are a graduate, or cadet engineer. Typically its not until you've have several years of experience in an engineering capacity, and have passed your government's regulatory body's requirements, that you are actually an engineer. Usually this involves submitting a number of essays on your work, and then passing an oral review board.

Re: A Software Engineer’s Adventures in Learning Mathematics

#189

Post by brational »

brational wrote: post #177
vdnkh wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, an engineering degree is a guarantee that you know the important points of what it means to be an engineer. Ethics, engineering process, math, etc. When you get an engineering degree from a certified university, you are an engineer. It's a guarantee that (at one point, at least), you possessed the set of skills and knowledge determined by a board of professionals to be necessary for a career of engineering. Ot…

Since we're playing semantics, >When you get an engineering degree from a certified university, you are an engineer. That's not true. When you get a degree you have an engineering degree. When you get hired and employed as an engineer, you are an engineer. You have an engineering degree and I have a mathematics degree. Our employers hire people for engineer positions and call them such. If I were a professor of math,…

@dsuth - that depends on country. Some employers in the US will take a new hire and call them an engineering intern if they require time and testing to reach PE status. That is not required and other employers will grant an Engineer title immediately.

And I'm not merely referring to software. The above is true for my companies 20+ different engineering positions across all disciplines they hire for (Aerospace, mechanical, electrical, materials, software, etc).

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