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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#181
post #103

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Physicians per capita figures are misleading.

The US figure reflects very long careers; late retirements; investment in large teams of trauma specialists due to high war, car crash, and gunshot wound rates; a high percentage of women physicians working part time; and a high concentration of expensive specialists with no documentation that they improve outcomes and paid for by large federal government subsidies.

The actual amount of primary physician and general surgery time available to Americans is very low compared to other countries with similar numbers of doctors. Most countries also allow as many as half the cases administered by fully licensed doctors with 12-20 years of post-secondary schooling in the USA to be handled by nurses and pharmacists. Prescriptions for sniffles or heartburn, basic non-controlled medications, simple physical assessments, and vaccinations are handled by professionals the USA would consider nurses or pharmacists or unlicensed assistants in most first world countries. In the USA those jobs take the time of physicians.

And that is the top reason, among many other unrelated ones, that health care is so much more expensive in the USA. US doctors are fewer and have more responsibilities and thus must be paid extraordinarily to work very long hours and not retire at the usual ages or else some must go without care. It's not an accident; medical societies have blocked medical school expansion for decades until recently as the population grew.

Cuba, on the other hand, appears to be counting nurse practitioners as physicians. That's fine to do because they're highly qualified, but it makes the numbers not comparable across countries.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#182
post #172
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Furthermore, as Cuba lacks any agrochemicals, almost of their food production is organic, proving that agrochemicals are completely unnecessary.

Huh? I'm a big proponent of eliminating agrochemicals, but you've set up a huge straw man here: No one is arguing that agrochemicals are "necessary" in the sense that agriculture is impossible without it (indeed, millennia of experience prove otherwise). Rather, the rationale is that they allow us to increase productivity for the same input of acreage and man-hours.

I'm not saying that agrochemical proponents are right (I've heard that crop rotation is as good or better than synthetic fertilizers, though it's hard to argue against the labor efficiencies of huge tractors and lots of pest/herbicides), but the simple fact that agriculture is possible without agrochemicals doesn't disprove the argument that it might be better with them.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#183
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other Caribbean countries are like that without embargoes though. The first time I went to the dominican I saw all kinds of shacks made out of whatever they could fine/steal. The second time they built a new highway that avoided this and basically you ran through fields. I was disappointed because I wanted to show my family the real DR.

Caribbean countries are typical areas that lost their economic identity and are now basically overpopulated. The reasons people moved (or rather were dragged) there, are no more; and they would probably do fine if only they could go back to pre-1500 population levels (or thereabout) and just live off tourism. But they can't, so they will keep struggling to find new economic identities. The Cuban revolution could igno…

Cuba is also much bigger than the typical Caribbean country. They could have an actual diversified economy eventually.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#184
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the same way visiting San Francisco, the abject poverty of the people downtown outside $400 a night hotels is just incredible.

It's because we don't criminalize homelessness as aggressively as other major cities and the homeless population is concentrated near downtown where the SROs and social services are located. Keep in mind that it's generally not simply poverty but mental illness or a history of abuse/violence that separates the homeless here vs. the working poor in the favelas and slums of the third world.

Do you think that poor social service provision is a more important factor than the the homeless being insufficiently criminalized? If you do, you should probably clarify that.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#186
First, it's important to note that the economic sanctions on Cuba require the action of the Senate to be lifted. That's virtually a foregone conclusion however.

U.S. policy usually tends to favour business. That's why the economic sanctions on Cuba were bound to be removed sooner or later. At present, there are some products (e.g. compressors and other items requiring a large foundry to produce) that are very difficult and expensive to get in Cuba because most companies that produce them are either American or owned by American companies. Smaller companies from countries such as Canada have made a practice of "bootlegging" for the Cubans. In recent years it has not been uncommon for a compressor skid to be produced in Texas, shipped to Alberta via rail, shipped to the East coast through Canada via rail, and finally shipped to Cuba.

The reason sanctions against Cuba are finally being dropped is probably related to the death or extreme old age of most everyone who can remember having property snatched away from them when the Cubans nationalized everything after the revolution. Subsequent generations of Cubans and americans have been brought up to distrust each other though. It won't be as easy as some think for U.S. companies to march back into Cuba and set up shop again. Companies that have been quietly running mines and building power plants for the Cubans over the last few decades will likely have the edge. It's going to take time and patience for trust to be restored.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#187
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cubans enjoy greater economic and medical security under socialism than their counterparts in capitalist neighboring countries, even without subsidies from Russia and even with a strict embargo with the US. The country is surprisingly politically free for a tiny nation facing an existential threat from a hostile super power that has invaded, attempted to assassinate it's leader, and funded militants dead set on viole…

Cuba is a success story for socialism, and that is why US policy has sought to punish it, and to make it fail. I don't think your argument is supported by any of the facts.[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba#Contempora...

He was making an economic argument, not a political rights argument.

How come nobody hit the ceiling when we didn't close our embassy with China today?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing statistics from small, homogeneous populations to statistics from larger, heterogeneous populations is fraught with peril. Doubly so for metrics on education and health. (I like to call this the Scandinavian Fallacy) As engineers we would never compare uptime statistics from a small, niche startup serving a couple thousand people to uptime statistics from, say, Google. Why do we immediately ignore these pri…

small, niche startups usually have poor uptime on their services. we commend them if they have a year up (hell, if they still exist after a year), but criticize Google for being down once every few years. therefore, if you want to bring in the analogy of startups and Google, it should be even more impressive that small countries (viz. people in small countries, viz. Cuba) live longer than Google (viz. people in large…

No, because the specific topics at hand are not comparable (service uptime and, say, physicians per capita). The analogy was meant only to illustrate the fact that you cannot (should not) directly compare statistics from such different entities without attempting to control for the variables.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#189
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Comparing statistics from small, homogeneous populations to statistics from larger, heterogeneous populations is fraught with peril. Doubly so for metrics on education and health. (I like to call this the Scandinavian Fallacy) As engineers we would never compare uptime statistics from a small, niche startup serving a couple thousand people to uptime statistics from, say, Google. Why do we immediately ignore these pri…

Since when has Cuba had a homogeneous population?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#190
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

> - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67 2nd highest in the world, behind Monaco (70): http://kff.org/global-indicator/physicians/ For comparison: Sweden (38), UK (27), Japan (21), Canada (20) Makes you wonder if that number has any significance at all. Japan has 1/3rd the number of doctors, but the highest life expectancy in the world.

Japan has a lot of welfare fraud which inflates their life expectancy numbers. It also has a fairly low level of income inequality relative to their per capita GDP which helps things. (AKA few poor people.) And to top it off universal healthcare which significantly increases a population’s life expectancy.

Edit: Arguably the high food prices reduce obesity which is really important.

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