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Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

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Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#181

Post by mikeash »

markdown wrote: post #178
mikeash wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that was their point, because if "it's too hard to calculate tax yourself" was the point, it's a bad point, especially in the modern era of smartphones.

It's less about being hard to calculate and more about being annoyingly unnecessary. A basket of 10 random goods in a grocery store may have wildly different taxes applicable to them.. there are sales taxes, sin taxes (on tobacco, alcohol, etc), and others. These aren't listed on the price tag, so are essentially hidden. Here in Fiji, I walk into a grocery store with $100 and can arrive at the checkout counter knowin…

I agree that it's annoying and unnecessary and I won't defend it, but that's rather different from "you don't know what you're paying." You only don't know what you're paying if you don't want to figure it out. All the necessary information is available.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#182

Post by eru »

npizzolato wrote: post #167
eru wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a train.

In the US? Hah. I once looked up the time it would take to take a train from Seattle to Chicago. Three days, one way. I would have to spend a week vacation just traveling to and from my destination. The flight between those two cities is four hours. Trains in the US are substitutes for driving, not flying.

There are other countries.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#183

Post by brandonmenc »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #8

In the states, the more I deal with cellular companies and airlines, the more I hate them. It's not just me: it's a common opinion. One prominent business magazine had a cover a few years back titled something like "The companies we all hate" Consumers like to purchase things in atomic units and simple terms. If I go to the grocery store, there's a bushel of apples. The sign says "Granny Smith apples: $1" I can confi…

If the airlines adopted a simple, predictable pricing scheme, you likely wouldn't be able to afford it.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#184

Post by brandonmenc »

alexivanovs wrote: post #77

This is a great piece, definitely, but the question I have, do you - Americans - consider $500 a fair/reasonable amount of money to pay for a plane ticket? (I even had to lookup the average salary in the USA) I'm from Europe myself, and it usually costs us anywhere from $40 to $150 to travel anywhere in Europe, though the prices do go up if you want to go to a place such as China, Thailand, or even India. But then ag…

I fly across the country every few months (live in Arizona, family in Pennsylvania) and I usually pay around $450, round trip.

I could pay less, but I stick with US Airways so I can rack up miles. When I made less money I'd fly whatever airline was cheapest - just under $400 was common.

I've done it all: bus, train, and drove myself. Flying is the best deal, hands down. There's no comparison - round-trip cross-country for $500 is a modern miracle.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#185

Post by Bpit »

xaro wrote: post #75
manacit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to sound standoffish, but as far as I know this isn't true. I have yet to see real proof that airline companies get you to pay a higher fare by tracking your searches/browsing. While I'm sure you saw a $50 difference, it was likely a slightly different search, which is almost always what happens when people claim they've noticed this. About a year ago, someone on reddit went out and offered a year of red…

I experienced this just the other day. My father was looking at a price in his computer that I couldn't get (I was getting one that was $500 extra). I erased the cookies of the AA site, refreshed (exactly the same flights, the same days, everything the same) and bam! $500 dollars cheaper.

I bet you can't reproduce that result ... As someone else here stated, nobody can prove this happens

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#186

Post by thaumasiotes »

Someone1234 wrote: post #81
thaumasiotes wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to buy an apple in California and see whether the sales tax was included in the price ;) I have a two-part theory as to the advertising of prices exclusive of sales tax (which, again, doesn't apply to the apple example, for those HN readers who live in Silicon Valley); it goes like this: 1. Companies that sell products out of more than one store would like to use the same advertising everywhere, instead of making…

> is something I've never heard of. All of my US cell phone plans advertised the exact price they charged. Like hell they are. Here's a 1:1 copy/paste from a recent AT&T bill (only modified for formatting, and for privacy reasons): Surcharges & Fees Administrative Fee $0.61 Computer Aided Dispatch Surcharge $0.06 Federal Universal Service Charge $0.82 Municipal License Surcharge $0.59 Regulatory Cost Recovery Charge…

You don't have to be charged like that if you don't want to. That's not a problem with the US, it's a problem with your phone service.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#187

Post by mattsh »

saosebastiao wrote: post #92

There is a big problem with trying to game the system with the airlines: The pricing is done using control theory. In fact, they have the most mature application of control theory to pricing out there, probably by virtue of being to first to apply it in that way. Practically, that means that you can only game the system if nobody else knows how. If you are the only one that knows how, the algorithms probably can't de…

Or, create a system where the airline benefits from you gaming the system.

For example, imagine you 'game' the system in such a way that you will definitely be in an otherwise-empty seat, and you would only buy a ticket if you successfully got your intended discount. Then, airlines wouldn't be incentivized to 'adjust' and you could keep getting discounts.

We are playing with a few prototypes to do exactly this at http://www.projectcaspini.com. Sign up for the mailing list if you are interested.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#188

Post by dalore »

manacit wrote: post #11
rspeer wrote: post #4

I was hoping for something that explained the part where they get you to pay a higher fare by tracking you on the Web. But maybe an insider site like this wouldn't be willing to talk about that. There are many sites that describe this happening, such as [1]. And I've seen it happen to me: a fare would go up by $50 while I was searching, and opening a private browsing window would make it go back down. [1] http://www.…

I don't mean to sound standoffish, but as far as I know this isn't true. I have yet to see real proof that airline companies get you to pay a higher fare by tracking your searches/browsing. While I'm sure you saw a $50 difference, it was likely a slightly different search, which is almost always what happens when people claim they've noticed this. About a year ago, someone on reddit went out and offered a year of red…

This study seems to corroborate https://www.petsymposium.org/2014/papers/Vissers.pdf

That price fluctuations are more due to activity than user profiling.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#189

Post by saryant »

thedufer wrote: post #180
jusben1369 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airfares are most definitely higher than they were in the mid 2000's. The global recession saw a big cut back in capacity and that capacity hasn't been added back in to the system to offset the ever stronger economy. Flights are fuller than they've been in a long time meaning higher fares etc.

> Airfares are most definitely higher than they were in the mid 2000's We've established that. The data shows that flights this year were about 13% higher than at the lowest point, which was 2009 (recession). They are a little under 5% higher than the lowest point during the "mid 2000's". These numbers (~.25% increase per year over 10 years) are fairly insignificant when you look at the broader trends (>1% decrease p…

Yes, I was referring to airfares over the past few decades, not the recent past.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#190

Post by saryant »

thedufer wrote: post #180
jusben1369 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airfares are most definitely higher than they were in the mid 2000's. The global recession saw a big cut back in capacity and that capacity hasn't been added back in to the system to offset the ever stronger economy. Flights are fuller than they've been in a long time meaning higher fares etc.

> Airfares are most definitely higher than they were in the mid 2000's We've established that. The data shows that flights this year were about 13% higher than at the lowest point, which was 2009 (recession). They are a little under 5% higher than the lowest point during the "mid 2000's". These numbers (~.25% increase per year over 10 years) are fairly insignificant when you look at the broader trends (>1% decrease p…

Yes, I was referring to airfares over the past few decades, not the recent past.
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