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24/192 music downloads are silly

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181–190 of 443 posts

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people buy $500 wooden knobs to make their volume pots sound better. (or was that a hoax? i can't tell anymore) Some people buy small pyramids to elevate their cables off the floor, some people buy mats to put onto your CDs before putting the CD in a player ( http://dagogo.com/millenniums-m-cd-mat-carbon-cd-damper-revi... ), some people buy $1000+/meter digital interconnect cables ( http://www.theabsolutesound…

> Self-styled audiophiles are, by and large, idiots with way too much money plagued by magical thinking. Not just that. But the arrogance and fanboyism is rampant. God forbid you ever consider buying a Bose or Beats product.

Bose and beats* are by, every /objective/ measure, shitty products.

Subjectively, you might like them, but the faithfulness of audio reproduction is not a subjective matter. You can play a tone and measure how well that tone is actually played back.

You can then also objectively compare things that produce that playback quality at various price points and figure out if they're priced competitively.

There is plenty of fanboyism in high end audio, but that's not why they say Bose and Beats are shitty. It's because Bose and Beats ARE shitty.

*The Solo 2 Beats actually measure very well. They're even competitively priced... with other overpriced fashion statement headphones. They're still overpriced vs. headphones that are just meant to play music well.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#182
post #163

I think most effective way to improve sound quality is to get a good DAC as close as possible to the output. Headphone amps with integrated DACs do wonders for little money. When possible go for XLR on the last mile to the speakers (good neutral studio speakers) to cancel out distortion from external electromagnetic pulses. To me differential, or balanced signalling is still the most clever, yet so simple, analog inf…

> When possible go for XLR on the last mile to the speakers (good neutral studio speakers) to cancel out distortion from external electromagnetic pulses.

A couple minor corrections: XLR is just a connector, the equipment has to be balanced and there's plenty of equipment on the market with XLR jacks but unbalanced signals. Second, electromagnetic interference does not cause distortion, but it does cause noise.

Balanced signals are far from a magic bullet. It is basically a tool for solving a couple specific problems: interference and ground loops (NOT distortion). In a typical home setup, interference and ground loops will not be a problem, because we're just talking about plugging a CD into a stereo that's a few inches away, and they're both plugged into the same power strip. Balanced cables are more helpful if you have audio equipment plugged into different mains circuits, or drawing lots of current, or transmitting signals over long distances (more than 10 meters). For your home stereo, regular RCA cables are sufficient.

> this doesn't make a difference for compressed pop music but for uncompressed recordings of live performances with analog instruments or natural soundscapes it does.

I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. The noise floor of 16-bit PCM is -96 dB. Your living room, if it is very quiet, has an ambient noise level of 30 dB SPL. Or you could suppose that you spent money soundproofing your rooms, and you live out in the country, and it's as quiet as a professional recording studio, at 20 dB SPL. Now, turn up the CD player until the noise floor is audible. What happens when you play music? It will be at 110 dB SPL, which is the same sound level as sitting next to a chainsaw.

Now, the benefit of 24-bit audio is that you can play music louder than a chainsaw (> 110 dB SPL) and still have parts of the music that are quieter than a whisper (< 20 dB SPL). Even without compression, it is rare for actual live performances to have that kind of dynamic range. Pianos, for example, are simply not physically capable of it, with typical microphone technique.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#183
post #90
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's do the math. If I didn't screw it up (and I probably did), an 8k iphone 6 would be around 1600 dpi.

Imagine being able to use a physical magnifier to see more information on the screen. Wouldn't that be great? at least for a curious child?

It would also increase the effective color count, even if it didn't help resolution.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#184

I once spent ~2 hours explaining all of this (well maybe not all of it) to a friend of mine who was studying sound design at the time. He didn't believe me. I even transcoded some 24/192 FLAC Pink Floyd I had lying around and made him do a double blind test to show him that he'd prefer the slightly louder song every time, even if the louder song was 192kbps vs the FLAC. He did. He still doesn't believe me. He still t…

>He still thinks he can hear the difference between FLAC and MP3 to this day. He works as a sound engineer now. It's really not fair to compare FLAC vs MP3 to "hi-rez" FLAC vs regular FLAC There's legitimately some instruments that do not compress well. The harpsichord is a particular example that you should be able to hear the difference on on any sort of decent equipment. Bur hi-rez vs regular flac is something tha…

> There's legitimately some instruments that do not compress well.

Are you sure? I thought that was just a problem particular to early encoders for the Vorbis codec, which were alleviated by altering the tuning parameters of the encoder.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Self-styled audiophiles are, by and large, idiots with way too much money plagued by magical thinking. Not just that. But the arrogance and fanboyism is rampant. God forbid you ever consider buying a Bose or Beats product.

Those are low-budget audiophile products, ie they are still marketed mainly to boost the ego of purchasers. There are three brands of headphones that pros use: Beyerdynamic (typically DT-100 or DT-770), Sennheiser (typically HD-5/650) and Sony (typically MDR-7506/9). Beyerdynamics have somewhat better isolation so they're more popular in music studios, Sonys are more comfortable when you have to wear them all day so…

These Yamaha headphones are excellent, http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-rh3c-profess.... Durable, they collapse and sound great. I have another set of open phones with foam surrounds, the foam is not stable and collects gunk if used in a backpack. The Yamaha phones very respectable replacements for the MDR unit and stay clean while taking up little space.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#186
post #22

What's so funny is to see yet another occurrence of basically "because Nyquist" yet fails to address that Nyquist only holds true over infinite time. Over a window of any finite length perfect reproduction is NOT guaranteed. This paper, http://www.academia.edu/8412078/Is_The_Nyquist_Rate_Enough , for one, refutes this. More reading material: http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf

I don't see how either of these papers solidly refute "because Nyquist" in the context of the article and sample rates applied to audio signals. They're both worth considering, though.

The first[1], the more theoretical of the two, is focused on digital communications where a Nyquist rate derived from the signal rate isn't enough to recover the signal function. The numerical examples given highlight recovering a sine wave from two, three, and six samples. The millions of samples in a single song might as well be infinite compared to these.

The second paper is much more practical and gives a number of real-world examples where naively applying Nyquist causes problems. The first, cutoff filters at half Nyquist to avoid aliasing, plauged many early CD players and other digital audio equipment. The second example is great as well, showing how understanding the signal being measured is important. The third example doesn't really apply to the subject at hand but is a good example of using aliasing for good. The fourth and fifth address the effect filters have on the signal. The sixth example refers to time response in control systems and minimizing phase delay to avoid oscillations.

[1]http://www.academia.edu/8412078/Is_The_Nyquist_Rate_Enough [2]http://www.wescottdesign.com/articles/Sampling/sampling.pdf

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Self-styled audiophiles are, by and large, idiots with way too much money plagued by magical thinking. Not just that. But the arrogance and fanboyism is rampant. God forbid you ever consider buying a Bose or Beats product.

Those are low-budget audiophile products, ie they are still marketed mainly to boost the ego of purchasers. There are three brands of headphones that pros use: Beyerdynamic (typically DT-100 or DT-770), Sennheiser (typically HD-5/650) and Sony (typically MDR-7506/9). Beyerdynamics have somewhat better isolation so they're more popular in music studios, Sonys are more comfortable when you have to wear them all day so…

There's a fair amount of pros that utilize Audeze and HiFiMan gear as well. Planar magnetics are popular.

Erik Larson is pretty vocal about his use of LCD-2s for mastering. Which... Honestly, I'm not generally a fan of his work, so it's not necessarily a ringing endorsement.

Also kind of surprised at your lack of mention of AKGs - they're another very popular brand for studio work.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far from me the idea to defend them, but $350/m is about 3 times higher than Monster's most bullshitty bullshit cable. Even their "2000HD HyperSpeed HDMI cable" only had a $115/m MSRP in 5ft, falling to $32/m in 35ft: http://www.monsterproducts.com/Monster_Video_ISF_2000HD_Hype...

My great business idea was to produce a line of "organic" cables. Our company would go to the remote places of the earth to hunt down copper dragons (as in DnD) and harvest their veins to make audio cables. The "natural", "organic" copper has a warmth to the audio signals flowing through it that artificially produces cables just can't provide (they have harsher undertones). Then we'd also have silver and gold cables,…

dragoncopper, have the website default to some non-existent northern european language/font with a translation button (british flag). Burled wood with reds and yellows. will buy.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#189

I once spent ~2 hours explaining all of this (well maybe not all of it) to a friend of mine who was studying sound design at the time. He didn't believe me. I even transcoded some 24/192 FLAC Pink Floyd I had lying around and made him do a double blind test to show him that he'd prefer the slightly louder song every time, even if the louder song was 192kbps vs the FLAC. He did. He still doesn't believe me. He still t…

mp3 sucks for bass and sub bass physical response. It's incredibly easy for a non audiophile (like my girlfriend back in the day) to tell the wooly, muffled bass of a quantized in my car vs the actual cd on the same system. Perceptual coding is not perfect.

Re: 24/192 music downloads are silly

#190
post #74
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rather a wide-ranging bit of character assisination. Some of us just enjoy listing to music on decent equipment (If you can buy it at your local big box store, it's probably not sufficiently "decent") properly setup (which doesn't mean expensively - just basic proper speaker placement and the like).

> Some of us just enjoy list[en]ing to music on decent equipment The best definition of audiophile I've heard is somebody who listens to equipment, rather than music. Of course your favourite Pink Floyd sounds better on a decent stereo rather than a clock-radio, but if somebody is forever chasing the proper "colour" for their speakers, or swapping amps for the perfect tone... they might be an audiophile. edit: s/you…

>The best definition of audiophile I've heard is somebody who listens to equipment, rather than music.

Audiophiles are an easy target. There are a lot that do stupid shit like buy $5000 power cables, expensive risers to lift cables off the ground, etc. A lot are pretentious, even if they're not insane or dumb.

But that's a rather inflammatory, and in my opinion, unfair position to take. I would probably be considered an audiophile - I have put quite a bit of money into audio equipment. But I love music. I listen to it basically constantly. It's one of my primary sources of entertainment - and I don't just mean 'I have music on when I do other shit.'

Each week I spend probably 20 hours doing nothing but relaxing with a bit to drink and some music on. Not reading, not surfing the net, not doing anything but closing my eyes and enjoying the sound. I'm listening to the music.

At times, yes, when I have been testing out new equipment before deciding if I want to buy it I go through and I do blind ABX tests with level matching. In this case, yes, I am listening to equipment. But this is a very minor portion of my total listening time.

I know you're probably not being totally serious with the post, but I do think it's a bit unfair towards those of us that love music, but also have invested time and money into getting a setup that sounds better for increased enjoyment.

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