CSS is unnecessary given a layout language • Hacker News Board

Re: CSS is unnecessary given a layout language

#181

Post by colanderman » Sat, Jul 05, 2014, 5:54 PM UTC

drifkin wrote: post #150

colanderman wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any CSS replacement proposals that are based on linear programming [1]? There are a lot of things you cannot solve with just LP (e.g. rearranging floats on a page) but it's a pretty good -- and simple -- abstraction for laying out boxes relative to each other. Solving LP is fast, especially when many of your constraints are equality constraints (as would be when specifying tables). [1] http://en.wikipedia.o…

I think Cassowary [1] is what you're talking about (particularly section 1.2 where they talk about some modifications to make their system very fast for incremental updates). Apple has based their constraint-based layout system, Autolayout [2], on Cassowary. There's also a project that incorporates Cassowary constraints into a CSS-like declarative syntax called GSS [3]. [1] https://www.cs.washington.edu/research/cons…

Great links, thanks!

Re: CSS is unnecessary given a layout language

#182

Post by ThomPete » Sat, Jul 05, 2014, 6:41 PM UTC

Throwaway0812 wrote: post #157

ThomPete wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have run successful companies and been fine without ever knowing basic accounting. We are not talking about what is most important we are talking about what is most useful powerful for someone who today is in school and need to have some skills for the future. Are you seriously telling me that if you had to choose for your kid you would tell them to learn accounting and not programming?

You're missing the point, we're not talking about career paths here, no one is advising anyone to become an accountant over a programmer. We're talking about an introduction to these subjects. If you had one week to sit down with every person in this world, I think that time would be better spent discussing finances, investments and retirement, instead of an introduction to variables, if/then statements, and loops.

I am not missing the point since I was the one making it.

It doesn't matter what you think would be better what matters is whether programming contrary to accounting can be seen as a language or not and is the reason why it should be taught.

Just putting some arbitrary other field in there is what is missing the point whether that is accounting, CPR, sports, history and so on.

You can put anything in but programming is different since it potentially can contain all the other fields in it's ability to simulate them all.

Re: CSS is unnecessary given a layout language

#183

Post by miguelrochefort » Sat, Jul 05, 2014, 10:23 PM UTC

larzang wrote: post #70

miguelrochefort wrote: post #65

The solution is simple. Let the computer understand the intent of the user (why he needs an interface), and generate a custom interface that exactly fits his needs. There is no reason to hardcode design. Design should be dynamic, and that goes beyond "responsive" design. Heck, even a simple card-oriented UI where every model has a manually designed layout would beat whatever we have now. Unless you're implementing a…

Because the ui of a website or program is not just an interface, it's also (and quite often primarily) presentation. Visual presentation is a justifiably complex field with a rich history that has taught us that how you present information is often just as important as the information itself. All those colors, animations, etc are an integral part of expressing authorial intent that goes far beyond simple branding. Ar…

I don't get what you mean.

What's the purpose of a presentation, and why can't it just be generated?

If colors and animations convey meaning, there's no reason not to include them in the generated UI.

I have used many aggregators that let me use features from a handful of services, and never have I missed the diversity of presentations of all the base services.

> Arguing that computer ux should solely be driven by the needs of interface without concern for presentation is like arguing that all print media should look like unillustrated pages from a research paper.

Unless I don't understand your definition of presentation correctly, and ignoring the absurd idea of avoiding illustrations in a research paper, I don't see a problem with this.