Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I guess we're stuck in semantics, because "doing something which negatively affects someone else" constitutes an attack IMO. You seem to be of the opinion that exercising free speech cannot be an attack, which I call bullshit on. If free speech were not powerful, we wouldn't protect it so fiercely. The right to free speech comes with the responsibility for what you say, and what OK Cupid and Brenden Eich said wh…
> You seem to be of the opinion that exercising free speech cannot be an attack, which I call bullshit on Quite the opposite, actually. It's just that I have trouble caring about the negative repercussions from OkCupid saying "please visit our site using some other product" vs the negative repercussions for thousands of Californians, among them many mozillans, of Brandon Eich saying "here is $1000 to help make sure t…
Mozilla Moving Forward
181–190 of 259 posts
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#182This is a pretty massive change. Eich was technology/standards focused. Someone from the product/marketing side is ok as long as they get Mozilla is really a technology product company (business and marketing is easier when technology/products are the base focus and you don't lose developers targeting the platform). I am a little concerned that a switch was flipped at Mozilla when the former Chief Marketing Officer i…
> I feel many of the things I love Mozilla for, asm.js most recently, may not be as focused as before. Chris Beard is the most technical person who's now marketing-focused I know. A little-known fact: he wrote the first prototype of the Firefox themes feature (formerly known as Personas).
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
To crib a very old phrase: I cannot rightly apprehend the confusion of ideas that would lead one to believe that it was ok for Brandon Eich to exercise his Freedom of Speech to support an attempt to relegate many mozillans and other Californians to second-class citizenship, but that it was not ok for others to exercise their Freedom of Speech to express their feelings about Eich and his suitableness as a public-facin…
Do a mental exercise. Imagine a very vocal group of anti-gay activists causing a tech company to get cold feet about promoting an LGBT supporter to CEO. That's the dual scenario. Does your opinion still hold? This is the Pandora box that was opened here.
That's how society shakes this stuff out. That's, fundamentally, how free speech and freedom of association and voting with your money works.
And more to the point, this is the exact world we already live in. Conservative groups pressured World Vision into reversing their stance of accepting gay marriage just a couple of weeks ago. The Mozilla-Eich brouhaha didn't open any strange new Pandora's box, this kind of thing has been a fundamental part of the American civil landscape for well over a century!
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You seem to be of the opinion that exercising free speech cannot be an attack, which I call bullshit on Quite the opposite, actually. It's just that I have trouble caring about the negative repercussions from OkCupid saying "please visit our site using some other product" vs the negative repercussions for thousands of Californians, among them many mozillans, of Brandon Eich saying "here is $1000 to help make sure t…
I haven't advocated Eich's views, I personally find them reprehensible. All I wanted to say in my original comment and from then on is that OKCupid deliberately performed actions with a negative impact (ie, an attack) - which countermanded bkor's original point. I found the statement "Nobody attacked Mozilla" to be incorrect - there clearly was a negative backlash.
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
You may not like that answer, and you folks can furiously click on the downvote arrow all you like, but I think that's the reality of it: for an extreme example, look at how closely every single aspect of US presidential candidates' lives are picked over, both present and past. Well, obviously I couldn't downvote your comment, and I hope others won't either, since you're essentially right. I'm just disappointed that…
I agree that it's important to be able to interact in society at large with others whose beliefs may be quite different from your own. At my own self-funded business, http://LiberWriter.com we get our share of political books, some of which I... am not a fan of, putting it mildly. But we accept their money and try and do a good job on all our books. I liked grellas' comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=…
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
So apparently being a war criminal is a lot better than donating $1000 to Prop 8? The world would be a better place if instead of Eich, Rice resigned.
Re-read my comment. I'm not saying it's better at all; just that you can't compare the two (and saying "If Houston had been at Mozilla..." is nonsensical). The kind of people involved with Mozilla, and the kind of structure Mozilla aspires to be, makes it logical for them to dismiss their CEO in the way they did. The kind of people involved with Dropbox, and the kind of structure Dropbox aspires to be, makes it logic…
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please, please, stop calling this "politics" or suggesting this is about (in)tolerance by others. It's completely dismissive of the very real objections people had concerning the appointment of Eich, especially those of us who understand the importance of Mozilla for the open web and weren't just out for good old lynching.
The problem is not people who were able to argue against Brendan Eich. I am sure that there was space for a sane debate on the topic. The problem was the bullies who were screaming along. (I'm not going to call this a lynching, because in my mind, that's basically a Godwin point).
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking for myself, I find the idea that a line should be drawn to be downright antithetical. What I support is individual liberties. Which means that it doesn't necessarily matter whether or not I support something. Individuals and organizations are generally free to do what they want, including being free to do things I don't like, and vice versa. Meaning: 1. Brendan Eich was perfectly free to make political contr…
How's that different from lynching? Or McCarthyism?
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#189People who are going to comment on this blog post need to realize how disturbing this episode has been for Mozillians. We are talking about a small group of people, a couple thousands at best, that work with limited resources to keep the web open for everybody. When this tidal wave hit Mozillians, the base contributors and employees who spend most of their days in code and features, we lost focus of our work, and ste…
This sounds very nice and I agree with the sentiment, but has a big flaw in the argumentation.
When you consider those beliefs directly contradict the freedom of other human beings, should you not act upon it?
Switch the LGBT issue for race and you'll know what I mean.
Re: Mozilla Moving Forward
#190Mozilla stands, among other things, for freedom both online and off.
Eich certainly has technical chops, and has contributed, technically, to both Mozilla and the Web. There's no doubt about that.
His personal values, as reflected through his public political actions, were an extremely poor fit. In his prior role as CTO this wasn't as significant an issue (though it could likely have emerged eventually). As CEO there's simply no question that they were polarizing and distracting to the extreme. Especially in light of how he addressed the controversy once it emerged.
Quite bluntly: he wasn't up for the job.
I'm not saying this as a GLTBQ individual, or someone with an unblemished record myself on this (attitudes have changed tremendously over the several decades I've been aware that alternative sexual orientation is a thing) or other issues. It's a reflection of contemporary moral values -- and I absolutely believe that there's a large room for movement in such values.
If you want to reflect on that for a while, I'd recommend James Burke's The Day the Universe Changed, which addresses beliefs. The first and last programmes in the series address this particularly episodes 1 and 10, which reflect specifically on how beliefs have changed over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_the_Universe_Changed
If nothing else, this is a mark of just how far we've gone from beating up faggots for lols (not that this doesn't still happen) -- even under cover of law (Stonewall and similar events), if not without sanction or consequence for those so engaged.
For those who are suggesting that Eich was singled out where others more deserving haven't been: Mozilla proved itself to be more susceptible and responsive to moral suasion and pressure. There are plenty of companies (and other organizations) exhibiting poor moral character: Dropbox's appointment of someone widely regarded as a war criminal to its board, ongoing boycotts against Chick-fil-A, growing actions against the Koch brothers and the industrial and political network they control, campaigns I recall against Nestle, Carl's Jr., grape growers, and other causes.
The fact is that moral and market pressures can work, and in a world in which enterprises far too often disclaim all but the smallest shreds of moral responsibility, they're often one of the few effective tools available.
So while I do feel a slight bit of sympathy toward Eich (he was caught up in changing times), I applaud the action and result.