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Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

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Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#181

Post by ekianjo »

rbanffy wrote: post #179
bunderbunder wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oldest patent I see that looks like it could be for MS-DOS is #4,779,187, "Method and operating system for executing programs in a multi-mode microprocessor", which was issued in October 1988. That wouldn't apply to DOS 2.0, of course. The bigger concern would be copyright. That might be a fairly plausible argument for why FreeDOS developers shouldn't be reading this source. Though realistically the odds that Microso…

Issue date is not the only relevant date - patents get extensions and expand in scope. I would imagine the FAT patent that Microsoft uses to get some revenue from every SD card sold comes from the dawn of personal computing.

> patents get extensions and expand in scope

Yeah, but usually you cannot get extensions THAT easily, and extensions are limited in time. I don't think you can expect extensions to last too long either (at most you can add a couple of years of exclusivity).

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#182

Post by foobarian »

anigbrowl wrote: post #139
rbanffy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's safer if they don't. Unless Microsoft licenses it under a license with the most explicit and extensive protections against patent lawsuits.

Utility patents only last 20 years. MS-DOS 2.0 was published in 1983, which is 31 years ago. So, while it's copyrighted and you can't redistribute the code or the compiled binary, you can go to town with the algorithms, should you want to. As a bonus, the availability of this code might make prior art challenges to extant patents much easier.

It doesn't really matter. MS has plenty of new patents they could use to tie you up in the court system for years. Fighting that would probably bankrupt you.

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#184

Post by userbinator »

ct1 wrote: post #44
RyanZAG wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are you not allowed to distribute it by the license, actually distributing it would get you sued for patent violation. Using anything you find in the code will probably get you sued for patent violation, too. EDIT: I can just imagine a future lawsuit: A: Did you read the MS-DOS source code released by Microsoft on XX? We have logs to show you downloaded it. B: Yes, but that has nothing to do with this lawsui…

MS-DOS is maybe the ugliest operating system I ever had the displeasure of using. There's very little to learn from operating system design point of view in there, and better sources are available under more permissive licenses -- ie open source licenses. It looks like a PR stunt to me.

> There's very little to learn from operating system design point of view in there

Actually there is quite a bit already for a single person to digest, if you want to understand the real details of how everything works. I learned about the DOS family by reading this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Dissecting-DOS-Code-Level-Operating-Sy...

UnixV6 and the Lions' book come close, but Unix is still far more complex than DOS because of its multitasking, multiuser heritage. Early Unices may be within the realm of an average student to grasp, but things like the BSD and Linux kernels are orders of magnitude bigger and more complex, which means that it's nearly impossible to get down to the details when studying them and the best thing one can hope for is a high-level overview of the various subsystems and how they interact. DOS is simple enough that a single person can study the whole OS at the level of individual instructions (and write an OS similar to it).

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#185

Post by bite »

Regardless of the license, I definitely like the direction Microsoft seems to be going in. First they make Microsoft office online free to the public, there's talk about windows mobile one day being free, and now this. All within a rather short amount of time. I don't see myself switching from GNU/Linux any time soon however, but I hope Microsoft will soon realize the potential of Open Source. One company I really appreciate is Adobe, they put a surprising amount of effort into Open Source, and also released Photoshop v1.0.1 source. On a side note; I wonder when Windows' will post their first project on Github.

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#186

Post by ballard »

qwerta wrote: post #20

Windows source code was available for a long time. My university had access to Win 2000 and some latter versions. Nobody was interested since most kernel hackers used BSD and later Linux.

Yup. I had the beta source of win 2k when it was refered to as NT 5.

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#187

Post by ballard »

herge wrote: post #16
gnoway wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft Research License. Yes, Yes, No.

How can a license allow modification without redistribution?

If you paid for a license to something and they provide the source with purchase, but don't want the source shared or modifications to it shared either.

In reality, if redistribution of source is forbidden, restricting unreleased modifications of source is hard to enforce.

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#188

Post by ballard »

delinka wrote: post #45
squintychino wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you have to redistribute something in order to modify it? Just modify it for your own personal use.

Since when do you need a license to modify something for your own personal use? If they've given me access to the source, I can just start editing to my heart's content...

DVD players.

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#189

Post by lugg »

rspeer wrote: post #176
lugg wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't find the answer but did come across this interesting historical take on software patents. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/24/business/microsoft-loses-c... > The Patents and Trademark Office, which began issuing software patents only a decade ago, has been accused of having inadequate expertise in software to judge what is truly novel. Nice to know nothing has changed in a decade.

Two decades, even.

I think they could solve all their problems by just hiring a handful of geeks and OSS enthusiast's like myself to lay down some ban hammers.

While thinking about it a little more deeply let's give them the benefit of doubt for five minutes and assume they did hire a bunch of geeks to do this. Is there any possibility the problem simply can't be solved easily? What seems complex and patentable today may in fact seem completely obvious and novel in ten years when it actually shows up in court or even just 5 years from now once it finally gets reviewed and accepted.

In searching for prior art, is it actually possible to go back in time on the wayback machine and check for these types of obvious issues with the claim?

Something to think about anyway. Disclosure: kiwi here. We did some form of reform already, havtn t noticed anything adverse thus far.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has come across problems yet.

Re: Microsoft makes source code for MS-DOS and Word for Windows available to public

#190

Post by pavanky »

parasight wrote: post #128
derefr wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important question, I think, is: can the FreeDOS folks read the MS-DOS source, and then continue to work on FreeDOS?

Is this a real judicial concern or just a philosophical question? I read code on a daily basis with all kinds of different licenses and I also contribute to open and closed source on a daily. Should I go make an appointment with my lawyer tomorrow?

Some companies have license agreements that forbid reverse engineering their software if you have used it / worked on it. It may be even worse if you have actually looked at the source code of the closed source alternatives.

INAL, But if you are contributing to projects on tangential areas you should be OK.

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