Why I stopped being a voluntourist • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#181

Post by ctdonath » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 7:53 PM UTC

gnerd wrote: post #176

ctdonath wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like step one: solve the meta-problem. Be the one who finds those people, so you can inform others who want to find them. I appreciate the issue. Having found a source of cubic meters of free fresh bread weekly, finding a charity willing & able to take it proved a significant problem. Just cataloging available/interested charities & entrepreneurs, and advertising the list, would be very helpful.

What were the difficulties in getting charities taking the bread? I mean, were they logistical problems? Were they worried about some increased risk or was it simply a case of bad admin?

Remember: I was/am dealing with 2-4 cubic meters of perishable bread once per week.

One place (public food pantry) couldn't distribute it for 3 days (good fresh artisan bread starts molding within 6 days, and pastries & baguettes stale within 3; recipients probably wouldn't eat theirs all within 2 days of receipt).

One place (women's shelter) wouldn't distribute it to the members/occupants (were teaching self-reliance, probably including making own bread). They'd sell it, making distribution 1-2 steps removed from assuring me what was actually happening to it.

Two places weren't always open when I could drop it off. Both planned and unplanned closures are problematic.

2-3 places wouldn't take it because items weren't individually packaged (I get it loose in large boxes/bags). Some kind of food safety rule applied in their case. Also, if they're not sure where it came from, they won't take it (I'm just some anonymous guy, not connected with the bakery nor charity).

Other charities don't know how long items will be in storage, so it must be packaged & shelf-stable for months/years.

By sheer chance (traffic rerouted past an accident scene) I found my current distributor, a food pantry which distributes it 12 hours after I get it. All they know is some guy shows up Monday morning with bushels of breadstuffs.

Mileage & waiting is also a problem. Takes me about an hour to pick it up, and another half hour to drop it off - most of the above taking longer, already straining the limits of my schedule.

And that doesn't get into the issues of actually handing out each individual piece, which is why I take it all somewhere for a single drop off, and don't try to hand it all out myself.

Oh, and some weeks no usable charity is open, and I end up with a ridiculous amount of bread I have no idea what to do with.

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#182

Post by isleyaardvark » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 8:16 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

avalaunch wrote: post #23

The main point the article is making, that not all volunteers are providing a net positive, is an interesting one. I have a problem with her position, though. She ends the article with: "Be smart about traveling and strive to be informed and culturally aware. It’s only through an understanding of the problems communities are facing, and the continued development of skills within that community, that long-term solutio…

> The main point the article is making, that not all volunteers are providing a net positive, is an interesting one. > "By volunteering I would be causing more harm than good, so the right thing to do is nothing." The right thing to do, as she actually points out in passing in the first part of the article, would be to do what you're good at and send the money to a competent organization. http://lesswrong.com/lw/65/m…

Less Wrong also published an article arguing the option of:

>choosing a career with high direct social value than by choosing a lucrative career with a view toward donating as much as possible.

That would cover skilled volunteering efforts.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/hjn/earning_to_give_vs_altruistic_ca...

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#183

Post by TeMPOraL » Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 10:39 PM UTC

isleyaardvark wrote: post #182

TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main point the article is making, that not all volunteers are providing a net positive, is an interesting one. > "By volunteering I would be causing more harm than good, so the right thing to do is nothing." The right thing to do, as she actually points out in passing in the first part of the article, would be to do what you're good at and send the money to a competent organization. http://lesswrong.com/lw/65/m…

Less Wrong also published an article arguing the option of: >choosing a career with high direct social value than by choosing a lucrative career with a view toward donating as much as possible. That would cover skilled volunteering efforts. http://lesswrong.com/lw/hjn/earning_to_give_vs_altruistic_ca...

Haven't read that before; thanks for the link!

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#184

Post by 1stop » Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 11:14 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #178

1stop wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western as in "white people showed up and ran everything". (like singapore, or Hong Kong) Japan before WWII but after the West showed up, based it's whole economy and work system on Germany, after WWII it was essentially run by the US. They are completely "Western" (as in white people) when it comes to their way of business and economy.

I think you need to google salaryman. There is nothing equivalent in any Western country, not in scope, extent, social significance, prevalence. Nothing. It may be unique to Japan. The "Organization Man" was as close as the West ever got and it's been a long time since most professional business people worked like that, if they ever did.

Nothing equivalent to someone who works for a salary, does overtime, but isn't overly passionate about there life... yep that's unique to japan... what was I thinking.

/s

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#185

Post by unsquare » Sun, Mar 02, 2014, 3:43 AM UTC

aestra wrote: post #133

unsquare wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>About the brick laying, I'm told that you usually do that poorly if you have no experience (unlike activities like making sawhorses etc. which require little skill). As a former bricklayer, i'll confirm it, unskilled labor shouldn't lay bricks, it will fail at some point.

My parents have a fireplace in the back yard. It has completely collapsed once. My (presumably unskilled in brick laying) dad rebuilt it but now it is falling apart again. I'm guessing the original builder wasn't skilled in brick laying either. Thanks for the info, I always wondered why that fireplace wasn't staying up.

Beyond structural issues, these types of fireplaces shouldn't be built using normal bricks, they aren't exactly safe. ( the bricks can explode under certain conditions )

There's also a special type of brick and cement that is required for the inner layer of the fireplace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_brick

Re: Why I stopped being a voluntourist

#186

Post by khc » Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 7:25 AM UTC

lemming wrote: post #102

pekk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "do good" you mean "give money to whoever has their hand stuck out the furthest." Those aren't necessarily people in need who will use the money for some good purpose, often they are in a special parasitic class of professional beggars and con artists. Hopefully the point is to do more than show off that you are rich and generous.

I assume he means donating to worthy charities rather than actually putting money in people's hands.

late reply. It doesn't necessarily mean donating to charities, but if you want to directly hand out money then you'd have to do some due diligence (not so different from doing due diligence on charities).

It'd also be helpful to put my comment in context. The article is talking about voluntourism, where the destination is often the developing part of the world. Having just been to Vietnam for 2 months (and volunteered there for a month), I can tell you that it's not difficult to just go on the street and find people in need.

Wages there is also so low that, in many cases, the cost of voluntourism can more than pay for local qualified individuals who can do your work better than you can. (Unless the position requires specific skills that is hard to find locally. Note that the ability to speak English doesn't count).

So if your goal is solely "make the world a better place", then skip the voluntourism and just donate your money. That said, if you want the experience, then by all means do whatever you want to do. It just may not be the most effective thing you can do to help.