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Today is The Day We Fight Back

thedaywefightback.org

181–190 of 267 posts

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#182
This gave me a chance to collect my thoughts. I sent the following email to my representatives. Thanks, Sina, for your role in organizing this.

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I think I understand what is going on. The folks at the top look at all the huge centralized information stores like Facebook, Google, Verizon, etc., and I guess they think, "well, it's gonna get collected anyway, so we may as well have access to it." President Obama actually hinted at this line of thinking when initially caught off-guard by the Snowden revelations. Instead of responding directly, he deflected, suggesting that what we really needed was a larger conversation about mass collection of data, i.e. not just the collection by governments.

The trouble with mass data collection, either by governments or private entities, is that it gives the possessors of such information extreme amounts of power. Left unchecked, it will almost certainly lead to severe economic and political corruption. The free market is compromised when a small group of people can spy on the private communications of executives and other business people, for example by stealing trade secrets or conducting insider trading. Meanwhile, democracy is compromised when politically active people, including politicians and activists, are made subject to intense scrutiny. Since virtually no one is totally free from legal or moral wrongdoing, the possibilities for politically motivated blackmail and retaliation are massive. And of course the data collection has serious chilling effects on free speech and freedom of the press.

If no course correction is made, the U.S. will become more and more oligarchic, more and more like China and Russia. This is unfortunate not just for its implications vis-a-vis individual freedom, but also from a larger perspective. This century we are faced with a diverse array of extremely difficult problems: economic, political, social, and environmental. Non-democratic governments have a historical tendency to fight with one another rather than cooperate, so it is hard to imagine how we will effectively confront these problems in the absence of strong democratic institutions.

What worries me is that some of the people in positions of power may actually believe that this massive data collection is somehow necessary to protect Americans from terrorism. But it is patently obvious that terrorism is not, and never has been, a serious threat to the personal safety of most Americans. Over the past two decades, something on the order of 800,000 men, women and children have died in car crashes, while around 3,000 have died as a result of terrorism. If this were a matter of saving lives, we'd be much better off fighting a "War on Car Crashes" than a "War on Terrorism." If this is purportedly an economic issue, i.e. the fear that a dirty bomb will go off in Manhattan and upset commerce, well, the fact is much worse things have happened (i.e. Hiroshima) and economies have recovered. This perspective may sound cynical, but in truth it is idealistic. I am not dismissing the tragedy of the death of perhaps thousands of people, but rather saying that, for the sake of a free and democratic society, such sacrifice is worthwhile.

The idea that "collection is going to happen anyway, so we may as well have access" is not unreasonable, but it is ultimately self-defeating. What we need is real leadership on this problem. Not only is there no strong voice against mass data collection, but the overwhelming thrust of the government is to reach its tentacles as deeply into the data gathering machine as possible. Instead of working to lessen the danger, the government is acting to accentuate it, amassing and centralizing even more data, and meanwhile using its media access to legitimize such activities to the public.

Again, what is needed is strong leadership. We need a group of people at the highest levels of federal power to put up a fight in congress and explain clearly to the American people why, in fact, we are on a very dangerous road. If not corrected for, this road will lead to the end of the democratic experiment, and a very uncertain future for our children. I hope that you, as my elected representative, will seriously consider taking a stand on this issue.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#183
post #143
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. >Refuse to participate in any committee/standards body, conferences, with NSA employees (or their cohort companies who have willingly forsaken the public's interests) That said, if you're part a committee or a standards body and you have opinions, the only way that you'll get your…

> When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. True, but I saw the original comment as relating more to recruiting. The NSA works just as hard as any tech company to compete for skilled employees. If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else. Unless you're planning to pull a Snowden (and have gonads of steel).…

And there are tens of thousands of skilled applicants willing to work for the NSA even if a thousand turn them down due to their policies.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#185
post #143
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Refuse to work with/at NSA until their policies change When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. >Refuse to participate in any committee/standards body, conferences, with NSA employees (or their cohort companies who have willingly forsaken the public's interests) That said, if you're part a committee or a standards body and you have opinions, the only way that you'll get your…

> When the NSA demands your data, you're not really entering a business partnership. True, but I saw the original comment as relating more to recruiting. The NSA works just as hard as any tech company to compete for skilled employees. If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else. Unless you're planning to pull a Snowden (and have gonads of steel).…

>If you're the kind of person they want to hire, you have lots of fantastic other choices. So choose something else.

I am the kind of person they'd want to hire and what has kept me from applying is the relative low pay and not being in my area. As an engineer, you'd get access to cool tech in an interesting domain.

>And if you do decide to help code the surveillance state, the rest of us may take that into consideration in future hiring, buying, and investing decisions.

Really? Because you don't use Amazon, Microsoft, Google? You wouldn't hire a qualified candidate if she had worked at the NSA?

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#188
The Catch-22 is that if I had faith in my fellow Americans, then we would not be sitting in this deep well of depravity.

If you look at where we are, today, as a nation, how can anyone have hope? We're a nation that finds it more politically convenient to kill people by drones than to close Gitmo. We're a nation that, quite probably, kills people by drones simply because our leader promised to close a prison camp that would have normally taken said people, but can't now because it would be too visible and too much of a political issue to have people arriving to a place that is supposed to be closing. So America invents remote-control murder from the sky. You can't deny that we're a crafty, ingenious people.

Today we know that George Carlin was not cynical enough.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#189
post #118

I'm all for this (fighting back) ... but (and I sincerely don't mean to be cheeky) but how exactly is putting a banner on your website 'fighting back' ?

The goal here is to get people to call their senators and congress reps to influence passing the right laws. You can contribute by calling yourself, or encouraging others, or doing both.

Re: Today is The Day We Fight Back

#190
post #25

All of the people who built the site and the banner are volunteers who met on HN across various threads, and not members of any of the advocacy orgs or companies listed on the site. We're really interested in getting feedback on how future campaigns can be better, and happy to discuss some of the decisions we made. The non-profits involved did all the legal and organization lifting, and this is a great opportunity to…

Oh, and this shouldn't be only a single day thing. I mean I see no reason why this couldn't have gone for a whole month, or even in perpetuity, and ask websites to keep it until we see real change from Congress.
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