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Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

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Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#181

Post by Crito »

MartinCron wrote: post #107
Confusion wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So downvote and move on. You're not adding anything on topic with this meta comment and you could have foreseen it would hijack the top spot. To add insult to injury, you're being drama-royalty: just because a few nobodies level unfounded criticism at her is not reason to "quit HN for good". Or you would've quit long ago. And instead of rubbing their face in their dumbness by explaining to them how wrong their critic…

There's nothing wrong with voicing concern about the state of a community that you care about.

A 'collapse thread' function would go a long way to eliminating the damage meta-threads and troll/flame-threads do to discussions. Yeah, I know there are extensions/userscripts that do it.

And yeah, I get the concern PG has about community fragmentation, but when I see a comment "leave HN" that has half a dozen replies under it, I really don't think I need to go down that thread of discussion any further.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#182

Post by NoahTheDuke »

Keyframe wrote: post #157
danabramov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea what you mean there. She was being playful . As a former kid, I appreciate that.

Imagine the same video, exactly the same, but with a dude. Still playful, still the same message? Or weird?

Probably great, because enthusiasm is good.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#183

Post by pbhjpbhj »

fidotron wrote: post #149
Confusion wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that reasoning is simple: I don't agree that what you assert has actually been demonstrated. There is no agreed-upon way in which you can teach kids programming. Otherwise: citation needed. Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more [..] How about being a bit more generous as to someone's motives? Why not "achieving the stated aims, with the added benefit if promoting an illustrator?". Suppose…

If you're unfamiliar I would strongly recommend this ("Doing with Images Makes Symbols"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTz76_zdfk The irony of this video is he's in danger of being referenced here in the same way he references Engelbart and Sutherland.

Thank you for a great recommendation; who is the presenter?

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#184

Post by throwawaycoder »

Confusion wrote: post #95
supersystem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just not sure why the gender comment was necessary." I said nothing about gender nor did I intend to, that was your assumption.

Don't dodge criticism by retroactively changing the meaning of what you said. We all know damned well the major lack of diversity in programming is the lack of women. Rather affirm that this is exactly part of what you were saying [1]. I'll one-up you: indeed, the chance of a male writing such a book is much smaller than the chance of a female writing such a book. Acting as if gender wouldn't influence choice of cont…

"I'll one-up you: indeed, the chance of a male writing such a book is much smaller than the chance of a female writing such a book. Acting as if gender wouldn't influence choice of content and style is ridiculous."

So what aspects of it are female specific? Because women would be more likely to worry about educating children?

Seriously, answer the question instead of relying on prejudice, please.

I'd consent that female heroines might be more likely for female authors (didn't check, though), although in this case I suspect gender of author's children might be more important.

Edit: I have to go further - sorry, but you made me think about it. Of course the odds of a woman writing such a book are significantly smaller, simply because there are much fewer female programmers than male programmers.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#185

Post by MartinCron »

thinkpad20 wrote: post #172
rhizome wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a child receive a bicycle so as to get a glimpse into the variety of the world of human-powered locomotion? Remember, "The Simplest Thing That Could Possibly Work."

I'm not quite sure what point you're making.

I think the point was that riding a bicycle is fun and that's a good enough for a child to ride a bicycle.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#186

Post by mratzloff »

Confusion wrote: post #125
mratzloff wrote: post #2

She's certainly very good at marketing, but based on the video and Kickstarter page I wonder how educational the book will actually be. A couple of sample pages would be helpful.

Your comment does not explain why you doubt that the book will be educational. So anyone that doesn't see a reason still won't see a reason. She's certainly very good at marketing You're certainly very good at suggesting your criticism should be taken seriously, because you preceded it with praise.

I'd say it's up to her to build her case, not me. There aren't any sample pages, and what I saw focused more on story than programming concepts. They're not mutually exclusive, but her video seemed to me basically an emotional puff piece, a bit short on concrete details.

You're certainly very good at suggesting your criticism should be taken seriously, because you preceded it with praise.

I think you're over-thinking it.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#187

Post by justathrow2k »

NoahTheDuke wrote: post #182
Keyframe wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the same video, exactly the same, but with a dude. Still playful, still the same message? Or weird?

Probably great, because enthusiasm is good.

Too bad we don't have an example of this to look at. I, regretfully, agree with the OP. It would probably seem kind of weird, and then male presenter would seem more than a bit childish.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#188

Post by specialist »

JunkDNA wrote: post #69

This is wonderful. I think some of the commenters here are missing the point by insisting that how they learned to code is how everyone should learn. If we're going to get to a point where coding is a basic type of literacy like math or reading (and I'm not necessarily saying I agree with that goal), then you have to start small when kids are young. Really young kids need some kind of framework. You can't just throw…

Art is how society assimilates progress, converting technology into culture.

Of course stories matter. My self image as a proto nerd was largely informed by culture. War Games, Short Circuit, a bazillion scifi stories, popular science mags and books, etc. I may have learned coding from K&R. But I was motivated to learn how by the examples and role models I saw.

Liukas's talk at Heroku Waza 2013 (further down the kickstarter page) explains her philosophy and motivation for the book. Having personally spent real effort on messaging, narratives, innovation, and motivating people -- I think her strategy is brilliant.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#189

Post by SimHacker »

rhizome wrote: post #124
thinkpad20 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two methodologies aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe when this book comes out your kids will love it, perhaps even have a better appreciation for the concepts because of their experiences. Or, since Ruby is very different than BASIC, it might give them a glimpse into the variety of the world of computer programming.

Does a child receive a bicycle so as to get a glimpse into the variety of the world of human-powered locomotion? Remember, "The Simplest Thing That Could Possibly Work."

Of course! Parents should give their kid a penny farthing as a first bike. It sure hurts when they fall off, but it builds character. Once they can brush themselves off and get back up, it's off to the factory!

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#190

Post by burntsushi »

Karunamon wrote: post #171
MartinCron wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree with the idea that we should simply ignore unpleasantness in the community. A healthy ecosystem is determined by a lot more than mere factual correctness.

But it's also determined by a lot more than a veneer of politically-correct pleasantness. I suggest that the best way to deal with such people is use the downvote button. Complaining about tone is just so much noise... it adds nothing to any discussion.

There is a very large gap between not being a jackass and being politically correct. The OP of this thread suggested the former.
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