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Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

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Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#181

Post by mhurron »

sneak wrote: post #135
mhurron wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take issue with just one statement here because I'm short on time - > special kind of oppressor to tell you ... who you are allowed to love and allow into your family. They don't. You can have a polygamous marriage all you want, you can have an open marriage, you can be as gay as you want. However, husband, wife, father, mother, son, daughter and what not also have legal ramifications, and that is where…

These legal ramifications should be either abolished or applied to everyone who applies those titles equally. Anything else is state-sponsored discrimination and harassment, which is our current sad state of affairs.

Your wife can mandate health care when you are otherwise incapable. You have 7 wives. Who has final say.

You get a divorce from one wife. What does she get?

These are just two things off the top of my head that throw a monkey wrench in things making the 'just abolish it' not quite as simple.

As for 'state-sponsored discrimination and harassment' just no. That is people and their attitudes, legality has nothing to do with it. Blacks weren't seen as equals and without harassment just because slavery became illegal and they could vote. Homosexuality is legal, but again, individuals don't harass based on legal status.

You are conflating legal issues with personal views of morality, they are not the same thing and have very little to do with each other.

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#182

Post by edgarvaldes »

sneak wrote: post #89

One of my least favorite memes in western society is that individual people actually believe that the government has some say in defining your name or the boundaries of your family. Everything from the idea of "legally changed his name" to "same-sex marriage" illustrates the problems of turning to city hall for approval or consent of individuals' and families' deeply personal and private matters. I wish the US had tw…

If I have a contract with John Doe, I need to be aware of any name changes of him. How do you identify someone who changes names constantly?

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#183

Post by singold »

VLM wrote: post #138
kalleboo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As does having a user's friends vouch for them (they call their friends and ask). This is probably the most "Facebook" of the options. They already do something similar for some account lockout situations ("identify 5 photos of your friends to gain access").

"identify 5 photos of your friends to gain access" Really? I don't use FB so I can't verify, but that sounds like an epic security hole for prankers, stalkers, ex's, and abusive spouses.

I can confirm that this happened to a friend when accesin facebook from another country.

Also I remember reading an article (from HN) where some guy hacked a facebook account (if I recall correctly) and that was one of the steps (he and the hacked one where friends and coworkers so they had lots of friends in commmon)

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#184

Post by john_b »

judk wrote: post #178
sneak wrote: post #89

One of my least favorite memes in western society is that individual people actually believe that the government has some say in defining your name or the boundaries of your family. Everything from the idea of "legally changed his name" to "same-sex marriage" illustrates the problems of turning to city hall for approval or consent of individuals' and families' deeply personal and private matters. I wish the US had tw…

You are welcome to live in the wilderness and call yourself whatever you want. If you want to live in a society you have to abide by rules to facilitate living together. Never has a legal name been an only name. Chinese names ,nicknames, Jewish names all exist.

The same argument applies equally to authoritarian regimes. Maybe sneak doesn't want to live in a society that enforces these rules, but simply has no other alternatives. Telling someone who criticizes their society to either take it or leave it is immature, and if such an attitude is widely adopted by the society as a whole it will simply cease to improve.

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#185

Post by pirateking »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #175
wmeredith wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument basically boils down to "everyone else is doing it". That's nuts. This is no reason to keep doing something against your own self-interest. Replace the word Facebook with texting while driving and reread your comment.

"Texting while driving" has a simple, safe, more-or-less equivalent substitute: texting while not driving. Facebook, insofar as it is a widely-adopted and community-preferred communications tool, does not: network effects and all that.

Actually it does. The more or less equivalent substitute to "communicating on the internet with Facebook" is "communicating on the internet without Facebook".

Facebook is a subset of Internet communication just as driving is a subset of texting scenarios.

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#186

Post by _xeah »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #159
sneak wrote: post #89

One of my least favorite memes in western society is that individual people actually believe that the government has some say in defining your name or the boundaries of your family. Everything from the idea of "legally changed his name" to "same-sex marriage" illustrates the problems of turning to city hall for approval or consent of individuals' and families' deeply personal and private matters. I wish the US had tw…

Wouldn't solve the abortion debate. I used to say the same thing until someone explained to me that they are fighting for the same rights of the unborn children. I'm not saying that position is right or wrong; I'm just saying that said position exists.

A person holding to this position will have no problem with a woman wanting to cut off a finger or remove a toe, but as soon as you consider the unborn to be a person that has a body, every right given to someone with a body would be extended to the body in the womb.

Not trying to start any debate (I promise), but I would say it does solve the issue with abortion, because there is a human body in the womb, and would therefore have rights protecting it from being killed.

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#187

Post by znowi »

Wow. So, basically, Facebook says: "You're locked out. If you want to stay a Facebook user, you must provide your government issued ID, or else - get lost."

This is a glimpse of the future, if we let it slide. The Internet giants can amend their ToS as they see fit and you will have to comply or get out. And for many people getting out is not an option when all of their immediate circle is already on it. So they endure humiliation in order to stay in, as well.

There must be legal restrictions on this type of behavior.

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#188

Post by john_b »

mhurron wrote: post #126
sneak wrote: post #89

One of my least favorite memes in western society is that individual people actually believe that the government has some say in defining your name or the boundaries of your family. Everything from the idea of "legally changed his name" to "same-sex marriage" illustrates the problems of turning to city hall for approval or consent of individuals' and families' deeply personal and private matters. I wish the US had tw…

I'm going to take issue with just one statement here because I'm short on time - > special kind of oppressor to tell you ... who you are allowed to love and allow into your family. They don't. You can have a polygamous marriage all you want, you can have an open marriage, you can be as gay as you want. However, husband, wife, father, mother, son, daughter and what not also have legal ramifications, and that is where…

Many of the "legal ramifications" are legal priveleges. Your spouse can visit you in the hospital and be listed on your insurance policy. If your spouse is not legally recognized as your spouse then those benefits will be prohibited to you. Many other favorable incentives such as tax benefits rest solely on what the state thinks of your relationships, and not what you think of them.

In some jurisdictions, the state can decide that you are formally and legally married even if you have never filed for a marriage license[1].

Like it or not, what the state thinks about your relationships can impact your life enormously.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage

Re: Fury at Facebook as login requests “Government ID”

#189

Post by falcolas »

mhurron wrote: post #126
sneak wrote: post #89

One of my least favorite memes in western society is that individual people actually believe that the government has some say in defining your name or the boundaries of your family. Everything from the idea of "legally changed his name" to "same-sex marriage" illustrates the problems of turning to city hall for approval or consent of individuals' and families' deeply personal and private matters. I wish the US had tw…

I'm going to take issue with just one statement here because I'm short on time - > special kind of oppressor to tell you ... who you are allowed to love and allow into your family. They don't. You can have a polygamous marriage all you want, you can have an open marriage, you can be as gay as you want. However, husband, wife, father, mother, son, daughter and what not also have legal ramifications, and that is where…

> You can have a polygamous marriage all you want

No, you can't. It's illegal in most states (see how the "Big Love" family had to move due to pending prosecution in Utah).

> you can be as gay as you want.

Not if you're male - sodomy is illegal in many states (despite a Supreme Court ruling that pretty much shuts them down) in the US, and many other countries entirely [1].

> [The law] has nothing to do with any morality associated with the relationships.

Laws are derived from the morality of their times. The laws against murder, and exceptions thereof, are based on what society believes is wrong and right.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law

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