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Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

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Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#181

Post by slg »

mdasen wrote: post #144

I don't mean to be too meta, but did anyone else notice this article dropping from #1 to #19 in a matter of minutes? It feels like one of the powers that be is trying to censor the article. I know that the ranking algorithm isn't directly tied to points and time, but there's an article an hour older with only 31 points (vs over 130) that's in position 5: http://i.imgur.com/RBLM2K7.png .

This is completely off the front page now. On a quick count, there are now 11 articles that are on the front page that are all older, have less points, and have less comments than this post. I would be pretty curious to hear an explanation.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#182

Post by moocowduckquack »

weland wrote: post #162
mintplant wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on . > These events include Mr. Mukerjee becoming further agitated and aggressive after testing positive for explosives, as well as him repeatedly reaching for his not-yet-manually-searched bag. > However,multiple statements by TSA personnel reference Mr. Mukerjee repeatedly grabbing for his bag after he was told not to touch it. > While false positives are not unusual for ETD, it is unusual a person and thei…

One of the things you get when you have a horde of untrained, uptight civilians dressed in uniforms is an incredibly unprofessional behaviour from someone who is supposed to do law enforcement. The agents did several things that escalated the whole deal, things which a cadet would have immediately understood. To quote just a few: > These events include Mr. Mukerjee becoming further agitated and aggressive after testi…

This is brilliant. Can we clone you to restaff the TSA?

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#183

Post by InclinedPlane »

weland wrote: post #162
mintplant wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on . > These events include Mr. Mukerjee becoming further agitated and aggressive after testing positive for explosives, as well as him repeatedly reaching for his not-yet-manually-searched bag. > However,multiple statements by TSA personnel reference Mr. Mukerjee repeatedly grabbing for his bag after he was told not to touch it. > While false positives are not unusual for ETD, it is unusual a person and thei…

One of the things you get when you have a horde of untrained, uptight civilians dressed in uniforms is an incredibly unprofessional behaviour from someone who is supposed to do law enforcement. The agents did several things that escalated the whole deal, things which a cadet would have immediately understood. To quote just a few: > These events include Mr. Mukerjee becoming further agitated and aggressive after testi…

It's sad. No, scratch that, it's fucking outrageous that this explanation is even necessary. Somehow we've internalized the notion that kafkaesque nightmares are to be expected and necessarily endured by good little citizens in order for our country to continue to exist or something. In many ways this is more frightening than living in a 1984 style dystopia. Living in a dystopia of our own making that receives more popular support than condemnation is almost too distressing to contemplate.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#184

Post by einhverfr »

etchalon wrote: post #154
einhverfr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not mean he wasn't detained. If you aren't free to go, you are detained. If you are pulled over for speeding, until the officer lets you go, you are detained. So not only was he detained but his bag was seized. Now arguably everyone is briefly detained by the TSA on condition of travel, and arguably all bags are seized briefly. However, that is why there needs to be scrutiny on these practices.

As was stated, he wasn't detained. He was told he could leave the airport, escorted by personnel, but that his bag had to remain. So he chose to stay.

"Wait here for someone who will escort you out" = "he was detained."

"The bag had to remain" = "they seized his bag."

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#185

Post by einhverfr »

asperous wrote: post #117
etchalon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying is not even remotely a right. Any airline, any airpot, any business period can refuse to provide you service for any non-protected reason (race, gender, etc.).

That's indeed correct. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 provides that service cannot be refused* on the "ground of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin", other than that it is really fair game. In fact it is a right for businesses to choose who they want to serve. An airline that only flies costumed clients? 100% a right in this country. They can even decide who they consider costumed and who not. * In research…

Note that in California the Unruh Act more or less states that businesses do not have a right to refuse service for anything not related to the business transaction. For example, the ACLU was successfully sued under the law for kicking off-duty police officers out of a seminar on police surveillance, and banks have been sued for denying loans to homeowners who expressed interests in running home-based day care centers.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#186

Post by einhverfr »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #173
etchalon wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As was stated, he wasn't detained. He was told he could leave the airport, escorted by personnel, but that his bag had to remain. So he chose to stay.

He was told he could leave the airport, escorted by personnel, but that his bag had to remain. Being told you can walk away if you like but we are keeping your stuff, is usually a form of theft.

Not a form of theft, but it is a seizure of property.

This is interesting. The argument is over whether he was detained or whether his property was seized. Fun shell game there. Not....

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#187

Post by einhverfr »

ars wrote: post #45
kyllo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is complete bullshit. "Limbo" is not a thing. Either you are being detained, or you are free to leave.

No, there's a third option: You will be free to leave after some defined event occurs.

No. In that case you are detained until that event occurs, like the person showing up to escort you out, or someone posting bail, or the police handing you your ticket and saying you are free to leave.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#188

Post by ballard »

wpietri wrote: post #172
ballard wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good work. Great claims require great evidence. It could be a jilted lover or frmr business partner.... Who knows. Are there any public records which support this counter-blogger's claims? The other thought is: does the original blogger have any hard evidence beyond nitpicking and counter-claims provided by JetBlue to trash our traveler?

There are public records about how many times the guy has been sued that are linked. And the news articles about the fraud case seem real enough.

Second link from the bottom. I looked around at the others but didn't see much support material.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#189

Post by smsm42 »

tokenadult wrote: post #13

This is gripping reading for me, because "Mr. Mukerjee" is someone I know by first name, indeed nickname, even though I have never met him. (He was my son's roommate for most of the last year, and was the crucial connection for my son getting his job in New York City.) I appreciate seeing someone else's perspective on the incident that has appalled all my Facebook friends who have seen Mr. Mukerjee's own account http…

>>> That said, if Mr. Mukerjee’s behavior that day was "aggressive,"

Once I've read about him being "aggressive", my BS detector went off immediately. If he'd indeed be aggressive, he's be tazed, handcuffed and detained. It's not like we haven't read what happens to people that law enforcement considers aggressive. I'm pretty sure "aggressive" here means "didn't kowtow to the TSA workers enough and mumbled something about him having some 'rights'".

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#190

Post by smsm42 »

unreal37 wrote: post #47
tokenadult wrote: post #13

This is gripping reading for me, because "Mr. Mukerjee" is someone I know by first name, indeed nickname, even though I have never met him. (He was my son's roommate for most of the last year, and was the crucial connection for my son getting his job in New York City.) I appreciate seeing someone else's perspective on the incident that has appalled all my Facebook friends who have seen Mr. Mukerjee's own account http…

I imagine 100 years ago, before terrorism, before the TSA, before the NSA snooped on our phone calls or Hacker News posts, before all of this... I imagine there was a guy who wanted to do something, got stopped by police for a couple of questions, and got agitated by the hassle and it turned into something bigger. Now 100 years ago, that guy couldn't write a blog post about it and get worldwide attention. But then ag…

He tested positive for some chemicals that produce false positive on TSA explosives test, not for explosives. As the original article admits, this is a common occurrence. However, it became very clear very soon that he actually does not have any explosives on him. What were they doing once that was clear?
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