Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#181

Post by oceanstone » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:08 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #171

cs702 wrote: post #169

GNU/Linux, and Free software and hardware in general, look to be the BIG winners out of the NSA brouhaha, because all non-US governments, businesses, organizations, and individuals around the planet who need to safeguard their private or confidential information now have reason to mistrust proprietary (unauditable) software and hardware. Free, open software and hardware are less likely to have secret 'back doors' ins…

Mistrust of commercial solutions does not translate into trust for open-source ones. Have you audited the crypto code of all your packages? Would you even know how?

There are many developers who like audit small pieces, and then share their findings.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#182

Post by prewett » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:09 PM UTC

leopoldfreeman wrote: post #122

The reason is obvious in China. Google is blocked by GFW, but Bing is not. So, there must be some dirty business between Microsoft and government of China. If Microsoft can do this in China, they can do this anywhere, even in USA.

The dirty business is that Microsoft is willing to cooperate with the Chinese government and censor its search results. Google publicly pulled out of China precisely because it was unwilling to do that. Even so, China did renew Google's Internet license, and they do run ditu.google.cn (un-offsetted maps, possibly only accessible from within China).

Google is not actually blocked by the firewall. Gmail is slow, occasionally lots of dropped packets, and other passive-aggressive behavior, but not blocked. Search generally works ok, unless, say, you are a tourist searching for information about a certain popular tourist destination in the center of Beijing. Groups, Docs, and other free exchange of information services are blocked, though.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#183

Post by Arnor » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:10 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #171

cs702 wrote: post #169

GNU/Linux, and Free software and hardware in general, look to be the BIG winners out of the NSA brouhaha, because all non-US governments, businesses, organizations, and individuals around the planet who need to safeguard their private or confidential information now have reason to mistrust proprietary (unauditable) software and hardware. Free, open software and hardware are less likely to have secret 'back doors' ins…

Mistrust of commercial solutions does not translate into trust for open-source ones. Have you audited the crypto code of all your packages? Would you even know how?

I for one have not done so and would not know how. However, I'd like to so hopefully some wise hacker will respond with recommendations here. IMHO the best thing that could come out of the Snowden leaks is a rallying cry for an explosion of crypto/privacy advances in the FOSS community.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#184

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:12 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #171

cs702 wrote: post #169

GNU/Linux, and Free software and hardware in general, look to be the BIG winners out of the NSA brouhaha, because all non-US governments, businesses, organizations, and individuals around the planet who need to safeguard their private or confidential information now have reason to mistrust proprietary (unauditable) software and hardware. Free, open software and hardware are less likely to have secret 'back doors' ins…

Mistrust of commercial solutions does not translate into trust for open-source ones. Have you audited the crypto code of all your packages? Would you even know how?

[deleted]

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#185

Post by seunosewa » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:15 PM UTC

el_fuser wrote: post #162

JonFish85 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And can you just imagine how much more sales Apple would get now for not being on that list?" Barely any change at all, I'd bet. And not worth the legal hassle they could have been up against if it came to a knock-down, drag-out battle with the US Government over .

not worth the legal hassle That's not the Steve Jobs I read about. Like him or not, he was a man of principle.

He was also pragmatic enough to pick the right battles. That,s a prerequisite for success in any business.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#186

Post by diego_moita » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:17 PM UTC

John Dvorak sounds like a tech version of those economic & political loudmouths that spread definitive and absolute truths with very little evidence (Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter). That's because their purpose is not to generate light but to generate heat; to cause controversy instead of inform. It is the journalism equivalent of the Rolling Stones and Madonna: scandal as a marketing tactic.

These people remind me of the Austrian writer Karl Kraus: "The secret of the demagogue is to make himself as stupid as his audience so that they believe they are as clever as he."

The fact is that for almost all big corporations there is so much money, training and culture involved in MS platforms that a shift away from it is just to hard to do, unfortunatelly.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#187

Post by glitchdout » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:17 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #107

lukifer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conjecture, but it's likely. Apple as a company has put a high value on user privacy, which was heavily influenced by Steve. He was also known for maintaining a high degree of personal privacy for such a public figure (for instance, refusing to put plates on his car).

I thought you were joking about the number plates thing, but it's true (and apparently legal) ... http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/10/27/mystery-solved-why-st... This reminds me of a friend of mine who proxies all his web traffic through something which strips user agents and referrers. It's very easy for me to tell when he visits my website, because the logs show "-" for each of these fields.

How does your friend do that? I'd be really interested in reading on how to setup a proxy like that.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#188

Post by Kylekramer » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:17 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #174

Kylekramer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in the NSA's eyes, that main difference is important. Free (and highly pushed by the very popular iPhone and iPad) meant people actually starting using iCloud. The cost-benefit analysis shifted tremendously from .mac/MobileMe. It is fun to think of Steve Jobs as the lone person saying "fuck you" to the NSA. But it isn't realistic. It isn't like the other companies are run by meek people who love bending over to…

I can remember that I've had a free .me account before iCloud, so I believe even .me must have had enough users: it was freely available to every iDevice user. There were millions of them fast.

How does that follow? It is not just about the cost, but the amount of utility for the NSA. There are plenty of free services that are not on the PRISM list and I am sure even Apple employees would freely admit their pre-iCloud user numbers were disappointing. They would not have bothered to rebrand the service in the first place if they had a significant userbase.

Looking at the PRISM company list, we are talking data service companies with users in the tens of millions (minus the oddball Paltalk). Apple just wasn't in that group until recently.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#189

Post by jokoon » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #171

cs702 wrote: post #169

GNU/Linux, and Free software and hardware in general, look to be the BIG winners out of the NSA brouhaha, because all non-US governments, businesses, organizations, and individuals around the planet who need to safeguard their private or confidential information now have reason to mistrust proprietary (unauditable) software and hardware. Free, open software and hardware are less likely to have secret 'back doors' ins…

Mistrust of commercial solutions does not translate into trust for open-source ones. Have you audited the crypto code of all your packages? Would you even know how?

> Mistrust of commercial solutions does not translate into trust for open-source ones.

Well, how well can you trust the commercial ones ? At least with open source, you can look into it more easily and eventually find security holes. It's a step towards trust. There is no trust to gain with commercial solutions, but at least with open source, it's at least possible.

The fact that proprietary agrees with a sound market economy makes it somehow more functional and more attractive, but when you're concerned about ethics, it's a totally other concern.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#190

Post by flexie » Mon, Jul 15, 2013, 2:25 PM UTC

sillysaurus wrote: post #130

flexie wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What amazes me is that among those corporations with revenues in the tens of billions of dollars, not one of them challenged the constitutionality of the decision in court. Not one, not once. Not that it would be necessary in an obvious case like this, but each one of Microsoft/Skype, Google/Youtube, Apple and Facebook could easily have hired the nation's best and brightest one thousand lawyers at $1,000 an hour, ful…

Not in the wildest scenario would the US government have jailed the leaders of Apple, Google or Microsoft. That may be naive. Most people have skeletons in their closets. The government would use these to pressure those leaders to acquiesce. I suspect the most dangerous skeletons are ones which seem harmless to you, but cast in the proper light they can be used as a justification for punishment. E.g. Something which…

I agree - it's what I mean when I say that I think they got something in return for not fighting the FISA requests. Could be antitrust cases that were dropped, tax hikes that were cancelled or more personal matters.