Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 420 posts

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#181

Post by btilly »

nostromo wrote: post #41

I'm saddened to see Dropbox on the list. Did they choose to participate or is it mandatory? In any case, we've moved several projects to BTSync recently from Dropbox (for no other reason than to free up space on Dropbox for our personal files) and have been enjoying the service. As a p2p encrypted protocol, I imagine it's much more difficult to eavesdrop on your files and would actually require a warrant to obtain. I…

The government's theory is that a national security letter is sufficient to get access to your data. No warrant required. And Dropbox is not allowed to tell you that it happened.

And yes, they can give your data to the government. Communications to/from Dropbox are encrypted. But it is unencrypted on the back end. See http://paranoia.dubfire.net/2011/04/how-dropbox-sacrifices-u... for how we can know that.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#182

Post by betterunix »

gknoy wrote: post #48
rdl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropbox has every encryption key used with Dropbox, so they can decrypt any file. Both transport keys and storage keys. Dropbox does at least (allegedly) encrypt stuff for storage, so they can RMA hard drives without having to destroy them first, but that's pretty meaningless. There are some (flimsy) reasons for Dropbox to have copies of all storage keys (a web UI, which only some users use). Dropbox has done a good…

What alternative do you suggest?

Host it yourself, and use something like this:

http://duplicity.nongnu.org/

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#183

Post by Afforess »

XorNot wrote: post #178
Afforess wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

What do you call speed cameras, signs, highway maintenance, driver education, highway patrol policing, periodic public information campaigns and aggressive regulation of safety standards in the automobile industry?

Interestly enough, speed cameras and highway patrols have nothing to do with traffic safety either. Highways could easily have camera systems to monitor the exact time when cars get on and off exits to determine how fast on average they were going during their trip. These systems have been tested and work, but the fact is that actually cracking down on speeders is massively unpopular and a political non-starter.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#184

Post by anigbrowl »

frisco wrote: post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

We have rights to privacy

Sadly, this is not nearly as clear as it could be: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightof...

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#185

Post by XorNot »

eclipxe wrote: post #165
sologoub wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many have stated, the problem is with inevitable abuse of power. It may or may not be happening now, but it will. Recent IRS disclosure that they targeted Tea Party-linked organizations for audits is one example. I doubt it was deliberately ordered by the administration, but someone, somewhere thought it was a good idea. Search queries alone will probably tell you which way a person is leaning in an election. That…

Tea party groups weren't targeted for audits. Groups that applied for tax exempt status on basis of providing social welfare were sent for additional screening to ensure the group was not primarily a political group. There were over 300 applications sent for additional screening. 1/3 were conservative groups. 1/3 were liberal. The whole problem was the selection criteria for being reviewed - based on the name of the…

Which was a problem because its nearly impossible to review these groups properly anyway - the criteria are so broad that it's practically a subjective decision. Of course, Congress could amend the tax code to provide clear instructions to the IRS on what should and should not trigger review and what should be reviewed, but that all sounds a little bit too much like actually doing their jobs.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#186

Post by greedo »

anigbrowl wrote: post #170
Afforess wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

We have such a massive program, according to many; the NTSB is a big bureaucracy and a lot of people consider the whole concept of speed limits and traffic police as a encroachment upon their freedom rather than a reasonable collective decision on how to share transit arteries. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. This seems a rather inappropriate apho…

Yes, the government has "limited" access to your phone records, with a subpoena issued by a judge, after probable cause has been demonstrated. Anything else is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#187

Post by [deleted] »

anigbrowl wrote: post #170
Afforess wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

We have such a massive program, according to many; the NTSB is a big bureaucracy and a lot of people consider the whole concept of speed limits and traffic police as a encroachment upon their freedom rather than a reasonable collective decision on how to share transit arteries. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master. This seems a rather inappropriate apho…

[deleted]

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#188

Post by drivebyacct2 »

I have a simple question:

If you're a terrorist, why would you use any of these pre-built services? There are so many ways to do point-to-point, encrypted at both ends...

I guess when I hear "Dragnet"... the only people I see getting swept into it is innocent people and really, really, really stupid terrorists.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#189

Post by greedo »

anigbrowl wrote: post #172
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, a hundred and ten times everyone, yes! It's one thing to do it legally. It's another to do it without approval from Congress. It's another to do it without approval from Congress or the will of the people. Although, between FISA and PATRIOT ACT, it more or less is "legal". Either way, you're on the right track. It's a slippery slope and as far as I'm concerned, PRISM is slippery enough to feel lik…

I'm pretty sure Congress approves of this. You'd be surprised how many laws contain clauses exempting the decisions of agencies from judicial review, for example. A lot of lawmakers dislike the idea of an independent judiciary and consider Article III of the Constitution to be a design flaw.

The laws may be written with judicial exemption clauses, but the SC tends to view those with the seriousness they deserve...

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#190

Post by XorNot »

tracker1 wrote: post #110
nostromo wrote: post #41

I'm saddened to see Dropbox on the list. Did they choose to participate or is it mandatory? In any case, we've moved several projects to BTSync recently from Dropbox (for no other reason than to free up space on Dropbox for our personal files) and have been enjoying the service. As a p2p encrypted protocol, I imagine it's much more difficult to eavesdrop on your files and would actually require a warrant to obtain. I…

Thanks for pointing out BTSync. Will have to set it up on a VM and a few places I have dropbox. May well be replacing Dropbox for a lot of uses.

BTSync cannot handle conflicting changes. It will destroy data if a file is modified in both places, and will proceed to overwrite something when it propagates the update.

And, if you're concerned about spying - well, it is closed source.

Post reply on HN