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Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

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Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#181

Post by vpeters25 »

mempko wrote: post #168
ghshephard wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a gut reaction to the "PR ploy to Pump" phrasing - which made TSLA sound like some kind of boiler-room operation engaging in shady behavior. Also, it would have been nice to come to HN and see the top rated article on TSLA calling out all the positives, rather than focussing no the Debt, Dilution, Loss that TSLA is experiencing. It's important to take time to celebrate victories, ours, and the people/organizat…

Tesla takes money out of people's pockets (the tax payers)and gives rich people fancy cars to drive. Not sure how to celebrate that... They payed back their loan to the tax payers by taking out a loan from someone else, not by selling a car at a profit and making a successful product.

I think they took a loan guarantee from DOE because nobody else was lending money back then and they needed funding to develop the Model S.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#182

Post by daniel-cussen »

noname123 wrote: post #23

The reason why Tesla is able to pay the Dept of Energy loan early is because of a secondary stock and bonds offering worth about >850+ million. In another words, Tesla is raising funds by generating more debt (from bondholders) and diluting share value (from shareholders), roughly about 3.5 mil out of 40 mil float, and using that money to pay the US govt. TSLA rose on the news despite diluting shareholders is because…

I still think it's better for the private sector to assume the risk inherent in that debt than it is for the public sector to do so.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#183

Post by Nrsolis »

mempko wrote: post #171
Nrsolis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I take a step back from this, I'd say it's bad strategy to bet against Elon Musk. IMHO, part of what makes his companies appealing is that he has a remarkable track record of keeping his head down and just getting sh!* done. I'm very impressed with his work ethic and vision and I think Tesla is going to go far. Secondly, if he is successful and manages to bootstrap and entire electric car industry from the ground…

cars are not an innovative technology. Cars that run on electricity existed since the 1920s and only recently mass produced by the likes of Nissan and others. Telsa sells expensive, heavy cars that run on batteries. Yes they are shiny. You know what would be innovative? Mass transit on a mass scale, away from automotive transport... but there is no money to be made on any market for that..

I don't know what you are talking about. That's about as close to apples and oranges as I can think.

In order to have mass transit, you need to have the MASS part. Mass transit only works in areas with sufficient population density and predictable traffic patterns to make the investment in that infrastructure worthwhile. Electric cars, however, help extend the reach of the existing electrical infrastructure into transportation.

In the area where I live, we have extensive commuter and long-haul rail. I also saw two different Tesla cars on the road in my neighborhood.

The first portable computers were large, heavy, and expensive. Given the technology curve and the total addressable market of transportation, I'd expect we will see much more attention to that solution given the wall we've hit with hydrocarbon based transportation.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#184

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #126
BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's these type of posts that make it to the top of a thread that make me not want to check into HN. Posts that provide insightful explanation about the story? Yes, less of that and more unqualified positive gushing, please. There is nothing wrong with offering an informed opinion, even if (especially if) it's not in full alignment with the prevailing attitude of the hivemind.

Man, I'm really not sure that you could have missed his point any more. How could you read what he wrote and POSSIBLY think he was arguing that we need "more unqualified gushing"? You pretty much just made up a strawman and beat the bejesus out of it for no reason... I'll be the first to call out unqualified gushing, but if that's what we're calling a factual account of a company paying back a loan I simply have to d…

> It's these type of posts that make it to the top of a thread that make me not want to check into HN.

> Can't we celebrate a company, that was called out as a bad stimulus target during the presidential debates actually paying back all their loans ahead of time? If there was one place I hoped I could go to celebrate an innovative company's success, it would be HN.

It's right there in black in white: "I don't like that we have posts that aren't strictly celebratory in nature" (at least about Tesla). For the record, I'm most definitely a fan of Tesla and have utmost respect for the company, but that didn't stop me from appreciating the critical view of this story that was offered by noname123 (in which I learned some things I didn't know about).

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#185

Post by dasil003 »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #184
ryguytilidie wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I'm really not sure that you could have missed his point any more. How could you read what he wrote and POSSIBLY think he was arguing that we need "more unqualified gushing"? You pretty much just made up a strawman and beat the bejesus out of it for no reason... I'll be the first to call out unqualified gushing, but if that's what we're calling a factual account of a company paying back a loan I simply have to d…

> It's these type of posts that make it to the top of a thread that make me not want to check into HN. > Can't we celebrate a company, that was called out as a bad stimulus target during the presidential debates actually paying back all their loans ahead of time? If there was one place I hoped I could go to celebrate an innovative company's success, it would be HN. It's right there in black in white: "I don't like th…

Wait a minute did you just make up a quote out of thin air and misattribute it to someone else saying "it's right there in black [and] white"?

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#186

Post by iancarroll »

dasil003 wrote: post #185
BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's these type of posts that make it to the top of a thread that make me not want to check into HN. > Can't we celebrate a company, that was called out as a bad stimulus target during the presidential debates actually paying back all their loans ahead of time? If there was one place I hoped I could go to celebrate an innovative company's success, it would be HN. It's right there in black in white: "I don't like th…

Wait a minute did you just make up a quote out of thin air and misattribute it to someone else saying "it's right there in black [and] white"?

I don't see the quote anywhere, either.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#187

Post by dnautics »

vpeters25 wrote: post #181
mempko wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla takes money out of people's pockets (the tax payers)and gives rich people fancy cars to drive. Not sure how to celebrate that... They payed back their loan to the tax payers by taking out a loan from someone else, not by selling a car at a profit and making a successful product.

I think they took a loan guarantee from DOE because nobody else was lending money back then and they needed funding to develop the Model S.

If my memory serves me right, they didn't need that funding to develop the Model S, they just took it to make the whole process a little bit less risky.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#188

Post by samolang »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #31
3am wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why be mad at anything? At most be mad at car makers for running so leveraged that they had liquidity problems at the same time that all the major lenders in the financial system ran into solvency problems (and feel free to be mad at the financial sector) But given that, it was _excellent_ government policy to guarantee loans to the automakers, just from a cost/benefit perspective. And there's no shame in not going a…

GM was in trouble long before the 2008 crash: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/06/general-motors-deat... (in June 2008, they were already up to part 181 in their series) Also, guaranteed loans for automakers might be excellent compared to other government policy, but given that Ford didn't take a loan, and there are many foreign companies which didn't need loans, the existence of any benefit from subsidizing mor…

Ford did get a $5.9B loan from the same DOE program as Tesla though.

https://lpo.energy.gov/our-projects/

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#189

Post by Ntrails »

dasil003 wrote: post #185
BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's these type of posts that make it to the top of a thread that make me not want to check into HN. > Can't we celebrate a company, that was called out as a bad stimulus target during the presidential debates actually paying back all their loans ahead of time? If there was one place I hoped I could go to celebrate an innovative company's success, it would be HN. It's right there in black in white: "I don't like th…

Wait a minute did you just make up a quote out of thin air and misattribute it to someone else saying "it's right there in black [and] white"?

No, he is responding to the initial branch. The quote is there in black and white

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#190

Post by der3k »

PakG1 wrote: post #105
enraged_camel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ploy, Noun: A cunning plan or action designed to turn a situation to one's own advantage. Synonyms: trick It definitely has a negative connotation.

Can we get away from splitting hairs here? Would we rather he have said: "Make no mistake, this is as much a PR cunning plan or action designed to turn a situation to one's advantage by Tesla to pump up their offering." ? A synonym may be trick. But the definition you cited fits what was happening perfectly without intending the synonym. Synonyms aren't always interchangeable due to nuances in meaning differences.

Seriously. I feel like sometimes people argue not in regards to the content but actually to be right. They WILL split hairs just to be right.
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