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Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

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Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#181

Post by tokenadult »

tobinfricke wrote: post #172
tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany, I have to say: the difference is shocking. Here, mentally unstable homeless people are not a daily sight on the city streets. In fact, I have seen only one San Francisco-style lunatic: and he was, indeed, raving in English. Saying that "United States social policy is [not] a model for anywhere" must be an understatement. I would ask: what social policy? Any aid from the…

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany

I'd really love to learn about what is actually done in Europe. Where is a "mentally unstable" person to be found in Germany? If a "San Francisco-style lunatic" (like the one you saw in public in Germany) is encountered out in public in Germany, where is he put?

P.S. I have adequate reading knowledge of German to be able to read German-language links about what is done for such people in Germany, if anyone here has any such links to share.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#182

Post by bubbleRefuge »

VMG wrote: post #64
beat wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee The solution is simple. You simply give every adult citizen enough money every year to insure that they can afford food, shelter, and other basic needs. Give it to everyone, rich or poor, same amount. BAM! No more poverty, except in self-inflicted cases (drug addiction, for example), or things like severe and very expensive illness (which are covered by other means)…

> The solution is simple. You simply give every adult citizen enough money every year to insure that they can afford food, shelter, and other basic needs. Give it to everyone, rich or poor, same amount. BAM! You left out the part where the money comes from. Your idea is fine and dandy, but I doubt you are currently implementing it yourself by spending your own money. The idea depends on everybody being forced to pay.…

You need to educate yourself on the monetary system. Taxes do not necessarily fund government at the local level. Non-convertable floating fx monetary regimes are self-funding. Its kind of like saying where does the score-keeper at the basketball game get points to put on the score board ? Can he run out ?

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#183

Post by onemorepassword »

tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

There is no Europe. I can only speak for my country, the Netherlands, and there is no such thing as people not having the personal funds to buy or rent housing. That's why we have minimum wages, social security, rent subsidies and regulated rent.

The homeless here are people mostly people with mental health issues that reject or don't respond to treatment.

It's by far not a perfect utopian system, but to have people being homeless just because they can't afford it would be considered an unacceptable failure of a civilized society. Decent housing, like healthcare, is considered a human right, not something people have to be able to "afford".

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#184

Post by pessimizer »

regis wrote: post #117
misc_closet wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that we live in a period of peak unemployment? There are literally millions of people who want jobs. The jobs were all made obsolete by Silicon Valley. The safety net was shredded by Silicon Valley-style neoliberal ethics based on Ayn Rand.

Yeah I am aware of that, but that doesn't mean that there aren't also people who don't want to work. I would love to not work and just enjoy life while I can, but I can't because I have bought into this idea that having extra money for shelter, food and other junk makes life more enjoyable... some people haven't bought into this that are struggling to enjoy their lives outside of the crazy whirlwind of packaged desir…

You're projecting your desires for a bit of freedom from the rat-race onto the homeless.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#185

Post by justin66 »

ims wrote: post #163
ownagefool wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Scottish and while I've not quite experienced it myself, I'm happy living in Europe where m taxes are spent on health care as opposed to bombs. It's not so much shocking as it is just really sad. :(

And the rest of the Western world, like it or not, is able to spend less on defense precisely because -- thanks to some unique events in the 20th century -- the US is effectively providing a defense subsidy for all of its allies. I'm not advocating, just saying. Perhaps European countries would have to spend more if the US did not concern itself with the rest of the world? Food for thought.

> the US is effectively providing a defense subsidy for all of its allies.

Not to mention the defense industry.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#186

Post by cdoxsey »

downandout wrote: post #19

This speaks to a larger problem: The world simply doesn't need many of the people born into it. Parents in the US have children for recreational purposes - child birth rates do not fluctuate with the demand for labor. These kids grow up, and many of them wind up sleeping on the streets of their chosen city or more commonly just barely living paycheck-to-paycheck, because there is no societal need for them. This bears…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#187

Post by roguecoder »

downandout wrote: post #19

This speaks to a larger problem: The world simply doesn't need many of the people born into it. Parents in the US have children for recreational purposes - child birth rates do not fluctuate with the demand for labor. These kids grow up, and many of them wind up sleeping on the streets of their chosen city or more commonly just barely living paycheck-to-paycheck, because there is no societal need for them. This bears…

It is not a given that "the rest" need to languish. If survival was not based on winning the metaphoric lottery, the rest could engage in creative work and experimentation, leading to a renaissance in entrepreneurship and the arts. Everyone could have more luxury time; perhaps eventually 15 hours a week of paid work will be sufficient.

To instead overwork those who are employed and leave the rest to language is a conscious decision.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#188

Post by phillmv »

walshemj wrote: post #139
troebr wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm French living in Jersey. I have been to San Francisco, even though it's blatant when you walk here, everywhere in the US I have that feeling that the poor are really forgotten. And they live in third-world country conditions. In France, the average rich is not as rich, and it's probably a lot harder to become successful and wealthy than here; but the poor are not left behind as much. It feels more like a society…

Well not sure a poor Algerian kid in the banlieues would totaly agree with you on that unfortunately or a Roma in eastern Europe for that matter.

Yeah, did you hear that TAL about the chicago school whose students basically live in a warzone?

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/487/h...

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#189

Post by onemorepassword »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #4

The guy's Scottish, he thinks it's about San Fran specifically, it's really about AMERICA. Maybe San Fran puts it even more in your face. But compared to most any other country even half as rich as America, the lack of social safety net in the U.S. is kind of shocking. People in Europe don't really realize the extent of it.

We're very well aware of the extent of the situation in the US. It's been a long time since Europeans lined up to emigrate to America.

Also, ironically enough, most Northern Europeans would already consider the circumstances of the underprivileged in Scotland unacceptable... The bad parts of Glasgow are considered the most horrible places in Western Europe. And the people there have housing, healthcare and access to education.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#190

Post by tobinfricke »

tokenadult wrote: post #181
tobinfricke wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany, I have to say: the difference is shocking. Here, mentally unstable homeless people are not a daily sight on the city streets. In fact, I have seen only one San Francisco-style lunatic: and he was, indeed, raving in English. Saying that "United States social policy is [not] a model for anywhere" must be an understatement. I would ask: what social policy? Any aid from the…

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany I'd really love to learn about what is actually done in Europe. Where is a "mentally unstable" person to be found in Germany? If a "San Francisco-style lunatic" (like the one you saw in public in Germany) is encountered out in public in Germany, where is he put? P.S. I have adequate reading knowledge of German to be able to read German-language links about what is done f…

I'd guess that easy access to health care plays a big role. Regarding the raving lunatic: presumably it's not a matter of "where to put" him, but that, with access to care, fewer people end up in that situation.

In that particular case, everyone just kind of steered clear of the guy and let him go about his (crazy) business. Bystanders appeared shocked and fearful of his behavior, which in San Francisco would have been completely mundane.

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