Where's the group pushing "everyone should learn to": be an accountant, doctor, engineer, electrician or a plumber. And on and on and on. Not everyone needs to learn to code. I agree that exposure to it and a basic understanding of it is good, just like other disciplines. But this is already happening! I learnt LOGO in primary school and then mindstorms, VB and HTML in high school. And so did everyone else, they were…
Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
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Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#182Hear me out. I was full for this 'teach kids how to code' thingy. But I think we have got this all wrong. Heck we don't have the right kind of tools to teach kids how to code. In fact I have now realized that you can't and should not teach kids how to code. You rather must teach them how to solve problems. Math was supposed to deal with that, but unfortunately that turned out to be complicated symbol manipulation if…
I remember playing zelda and mario with harder problem solving (including some injected just to make you call the nintendo hotline). Vim-adventures is fun, it would teach abstracting and building combinations, and it would provide a useful skill that gives them a 'magic power' in other people's eyes.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
One possible reason for the cynicism is that an increase in programmers results in an increase in competition for lower pay.
I don't think this will result in a flood of for-reals programmers any more than math or writing courses result in tons of mathematicians or writers. What it could/should result in is a future generation of people who even if they don't seriously pursue programming are at least able to hack together scripts to automate tasks that are important to them, just like they are now (hopefully) able to do enough math to get…
When I was a student, there was a similar push for teachers (a field also having a shortage of people at the time). The result is that I have several friends who are fully qualified to be teachers that haven't been able to find work in the industry for many years now.
I agree that simply having programming in school isn't going to see everyone becoming programmers. Programming has been offered in the schools here since at least my father's time – though there does seem to be a disproportionate number of programmers come from my region, for what it is worth. However, code.org specifically does seem to come with the purpose of trying to bring more people into the industry.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#184Hear me out. I was full for this 'teach kids how to code' thingy. But I think we have got this all wrong. Heck we don't have the right kind of tools to teach kids how to code. In fact I have now realized that you can't and should not teach kids how to code. You rather must teach them how to solve problems. Math was supposed to deal with that, but unfortunately that turned out to be complicated symbol manipulation if…
I started programming at age 8 - and didn't know that it had a name. All I had was a Basic manual, then assumed that's how the computer was supposed to be used (no graphical interfaces at the time).
By age 11, I had moved from Basic to Turbo Pascal and was writing my own 'units' in Z80 Assembly.
However, despite several attempts, I could never grasp C for some reason, until university. And then it just clicked. It is as if some very important part of my brain was not ready yet for it.
I am not too fond of logo-like languages, except to teach the very young. I believe it is best to get them an environment which is already bootstrapped and ready to work, but that won't hold them back if they decide to do some exploring on their own, so it should be a 'real' language. But a simple one, such as Python or Lua.
The fact that they are starting out with C is borderline criminal and will backfire.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#185I'm making www.codehs.com which is one of the sites featured in the video (the one with the dog). It would be awesome to get some feedback on what people think of it if you get a chance to try it out. We're focusing on making it really fun and accessible to learn to make really cool programs really quickly while learning the fundamentals and getting a strong programming foundation. One of the keys to our site is that…
What do you think about the Khan Academy CS stuff?
It is a tricky business you are in, but could work out very well if you can harness the power of community. You should focus on this idea "give students credits when they help students who are further behind than they are".
I would suggest a slight change in the term "credits" to distance yourself from the money=knowledge associations. Think more "pay it forward" economy where you earn points by helping others. Seeding the economy with a bunch of paid Tutors could get the economy started. Tutors will just earn "help points" in the system like all other students but they will sell them to you.
To get an exchange economy going you will probably need to move away from the crippleware approach(http://codehs.com/pricing). You should offer the real service (answering questions when you are stuck), and after users use up their free points ask them to help others.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#186I'm making www.codehs.com which is one of the sites featured in the video (the one with the dog). It would be awesome to get some feedback on what people think of it if you get a chance to try it out. We're focusing on making it really fun and accessible to learn to make really cool programs really quickly while learning the fundamentals and getting a strong programming foundation. One of the keys to our site is that…
Could you tell us more about your business model? Because I don't like this very much: http://codehs.com/pricing What do you think about the Khan Academy CS stuff? It is a tricky business you are in, but could work out very well if you can harness the power of community. You should focus on this idea "give students credits when they help students who are further behind than they are". I would suggest a slight change…
In terms of the Khan CS stuff, I think their editor is really really cool. They have a lot of cool real time features and number scrubbers and color pickers. I think it's just a very different approach to teaching than we have, where theirs is very much based on tinkering, which I, personally, don't think is as good. Definitely a really cool tool though. We've gotten a lot of ideas from it for how to improve our editor.
Re: Code.org – Dedicated to growing computer programming education
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I appreciate your math, but it is slightly flawed. You can get a bigger n, not by increasing class sizes alone, but also by letting teachers teach for longer per day than children learn. I.e. use you math per hour taught, not for salary. What this means in practice is, use teachers for higher value added work, but let computers (or somebody less qualified) oversee other parts of the learning process. What seems to wo…
The problem is that if you tell schools to implement "computer supervised" coding learning, they will tell the students to write a factorial implementation and then they'll test it for bit-perfect match with some "perfect" solution. This way they will verify correctness, good indentation, meaningful naming of variables and so on. Because somebody in the school/government heard that this is what professionals care abo…