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The Street Kids of San Francisco

blog.priceonomics.com

181–190 of 210 posts

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#181
post #3

Sounds like fun for about 1-2 weeks, and then it would be a sucky life. Gotta have mental stimulation sometime.

Where is the lack of mental stimulation? Conversation and books are free. You have plenty of time to think. I would think working in an office day-in day-out stringing together commands for a computer out of a limited vocabulary would be a lot more boring and non-stimulating.

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#183
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why you need a broad intellectual foundation here. Property is granted by governments. Why? Because it's a useful abstraction. Where did the government get the property? It claimed it and enforced its claim by force. So I guess my answer to the story would be: fine, you can fight the owner for it, but the real owner isn't me, it's the United States government. If you are so inclined to fight the governmen…

While I am on your side in the sense that we both agree that private property exists and is necessary, I think it's very dangerous to assume that property only exists when there is a government to enforce it. Furthermore, you seem to assume that only governments can own property and that the 'delegate' the ownership to citizens as it were - a point I take offense with, I am the owner of all my property, any governmen…

Government grants private property by agreeing to defend your exclusive use of it, and by dictating the conditions under which it will maintain or terminate that exclusive use.

If you find that you have the ability to defend your exclusive use of something, you're either appealing to a sovereign, or you have become a sovereign. To be a sovereign, you need a very large stick.

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#184
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a justification for private property. How will there ever be an orchard otherwise ? Orchards don't just burst spontaneously into existence. Imagine that no one 'fought the natives for it'. Instead the land was a vacant waste with no one living there and nothing growing there. Over the years through hard work, dedication and sacrifice the land was amended and the trees grew creating the orchard. The only thing…

A nice turnaround, but in the story, the land wasn't a vacant waste, it was acquired by force. The story isn't "Oh, you moved into emptiness and created something, so I'll fight you", it was "you fought the people here before, so I'll continue with your method of ownership". Similarly, the wobbly wasn't demanding an apple, but enjoying the shade. Was the farmer selling shade? Lowering the cost of shade to all? The id…

Also in Europe we had common land, and while you can argue about the tragedy of the commons, enclosure destroyed many peoples only source of livelihood.

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#185
post #57
post #40

Like another commenter on this thread, I've lived in the Haight for the past nine years. And while the article is interesting and informative, it doesn't quite paint a full picture (literally—the pictures aren't representative, that girl is not a typical street kid by a long shot, she hasn't slept a day outside in her life. Think camo and combat boots and pit bulls, not peace signs and hacky sacks) of the underside o…

The writer was duped. There is quite a chasm between the flower child from Novato coming down for the weekend to trade peace patches for shrooms and the addict gutter punk types who live there permanently.

True tho perhaps you need some folks closer to the edge to ensure the avail of substances people further out won't touch en masse. Ultimately some edge players are needed to give everyone access which ensures the greater scene. Legalize and this wouldn't need to be the case

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#186
post #104
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to know why you see them as a guest in your home, rather than the other way around?

Probably because he produces the value that makes the land a desirable place to mooch, while the street kids don't produce any of the value that makes it desirable place for him to sell his services to others. And unlike in your Wobbly story, they wouldn't be able to produce that same value "if only" the greedy OP quit hogging that land he lives and works on. You ever wonder why the street kids don't exercise their f…

This isn't entirely true. While the street kids aren't specifically responsible for the neighborhood's legacy, they are part of a line that has given the neighborhood a certain magic for tourists and nostalgics anyway

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#187
post #86
post #54

This article should really be titled "The Street Kids Of Hippy Hill." By going to one place in order to get a feeling for "street kids," they've gotten an extremely myopic view of that scene. The full picture is much more varied. Traveler kids who go to hobo gatherings would never be caught dead at a rainbow gathering. Rainbow family kids don't drink, and alcohol is even forbidden at gatherings (where nothing else is…

Will you write a blog post about this?

He has a few here: http://www.thoughtcrime.org/stories.html

IMO, learning about the sub-groups of the "street person" culture isn't going to net you much useful knowledge. A lot of the differences between people here are political, ethical or social (anarchists, hippies, gangs). At some point you realize everyone's just living out a script.

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#189
post #57
post #40

Like another commenter on this thread, I've lived in the Haight for the past nine years. And while the article is interesting and informative, it doesn't quite paint a full picture (literally—the pictures aren't representative, that girl is not a typical street kid by a long shot, she hasn't slept a day outside in her life. Think camo and combat boots and pit bulls, not peace signs and hacky sacks) of the underside o…

The writer was duped. There is quite a chasm between the flower child from Novato coming down for the weekend to trade peace patches for shrooms and the addict gutter punk types who live there permanently.

Those people are scary. The writer might have actually had to work at getting his story, rather than collecting anecdotes from those that have romanticized the lifestyle.

Re: The Street Kids of San Francisco

#190
post #40

Like another commenter on this thread, I've lived in the Haight for the past nine years. And while the article is interesting and informative, it doesn't quite paint a full picture (literally—the pictures aren't representative, that girl is not a typical street kid by a long shot, she hasn't slept a day outside in her life. Think camo and combat boots and pit bulls, not peace signs and hacky sacks) of the underside o…

Wow! This article really hits home. I had never seen (or smelled!) a homeless person before moving from Nebraska to SF. But here it seems like they are everywhere! I stay out of the Tenderloin at night, hope they move the symphony someplace safe.

Are these the people responsible for the shootings in the Mission? Really scared about how these kids are in gangs and have turf wars. They don't look like the media's portrayal of gangbangers, not that I trust the news.

Does anyone know if there are any black people left in SF? I know there are some left in Hunters Point, but I heard the housing projects are getting bulldozed soon. Why waste such valuable property on poor people/freeloaders?

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