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A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

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Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#181

Post by reasonableklout »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #164
reasonableklout wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, it's not at all clear OpenAI will get what it wants from the investigation. It seems just as likely to me that OAI gets hit with massive fines, just as Meta was recently. > I feel like that's exactly what they wanted tho. It's also what the majority of Americans want. This was the case even before Hugging Face, see for example [1] where 68% of Americans supported a formal review process for frontier models. So…

The claim is that the evil labs are opening up the industry to very carefully manipulated democratic control. It's astroturf, not grassroots. I wouldn't call that "democratic control", even though it uses the machinery of democracy.

This claim seems unfalsifiable. I don't really know what to say. The poll I linked above was published a month before Hugging Face.

Taking a step back, I think it's pretty non-controversial to say that software engineering as a field has utterly transformed over the last year, the same thing is happening to lots of other knowledge work, and AI is improving fast enough that nobody knows what it'll look like in a decade. Most Americans (myself included) want to do good work in secure careers and have a good idea of what the future will look like in 20-30 years so they know what to focus on. Do you not believe they'd want to regulate the frontier?

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#182

Post by rotunda0 »

woodruffw wrote: post #178
suburban_strike wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly in the middle and far east. The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality. If you're a teenager convicted of hacking in the west, no corporation will want anything to do with you. If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter. It's a curious practi…

> The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality. What? > If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter. To the best of my understanding, Unit 8200 is filled with military conscripts, i.e. is primarily 18-somethings doing their mandatory service. You get a…

Really? Young they may be but space it is not. Wikipedia has this:

According to the Director of Military Sciences at the Royal United Services Institute in 2015, "Unit 8200 is probably the foremost technical intelligence agency in the world and stands on a par with the NSA in everything except scale."

Unit 8200 alumni have founded NSO which provides the Pegasus spyware.

Meanwhile, Lahav, the CEO/founder was in Unit 81, another Israeli military incubator for tech firms, basically.

If you believe the IDF has no involvement in what Irregular is doing then there's very little left anyone could say to convince you.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#184

Post by an0malous »

reasonableklout wrote: post #130
r_lee wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly, the hacking incidents have caused a lot more interest and media attention than the math stuff IMO.

Sure, interest like an incoming congressional investigation: https://www.axios.com/2026/09/10/openai-hugging-face-senate-... And on this website, the math stuff is getting more clicks: - Navier Stokes - Tristan Buckmaster (2050 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605915 - HuggingFace incident discussion (1632 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48997548

The one RubyGems hack post alone is another 96) points

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#185

Post by woodruffw »

rotunda0 wrote: post #182
woodruffw wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that people bend over backwards to hire criminals as subject matter experts on security is largely a Judaic practice that television perpetuates in spite of reality. What? > If you're convicted of hacking in Israel, Unit 8200 will probably send a recruiter. To the best of my understanding, Unit 8200 is filled with military conscripts, i.e. is primarily 18-somethings doing their mandatory service. You get a…

Really? Young they may be but space it is not. Wikipedia has this: According to the Director of Military Sciences at the Royal United Services Institute in 2015, "Unit 8200 is probably the foremost technical intelligence agency in the world and stands on a par with the NSA in everything except scale." Unit 8200 alumni have founded NSO which provides the Pegasus spyware. Meanwhile, Lahav, the CEO/founder was in Unit 8…

“Space camp,” not “space.” As in, a place to park dorks.

(The problem with “alumni” is that it means very little in mandatory systems. Unit 8200 is where Israel parks its dorks, and it stands to reason that dorks are the ones who tend to start tech firms.)

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#186

Post by freakynit »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #172
yesbut wrote: post #26

hot take: generative AI isn't an existential threat to humanity. These companies are insolvent and these stories were designed to scare the public, and governments, into implementing regulations that designate these AI corporations the "responsible stewards" for this technology. The ultimate goal is to block competitors and open source alternatives. They don't know how to make enough money pay their investors so they…

I'm skeptical. The phrase "pacing the frontier" implies disproportionate regulation of firms at the frontier, which if anything would give smaller players time to catch up.

Opposite actually: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49674548

tl;dr

A slowdown that doesn't slow you, that your competitors must also obey, enforced by a government you've asked for an antitrust exemption from, is not a slowdown... it's a moat.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#187

Post by derwiki »

LinchZhang wrote: post #148
AustinDev wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digging back into the HF report. It looks like the initial prompt told Claude that it was in a simulated environment. However, there is also evidence from the traces that the bots figured out that they were not in the sandbox but kept using it as an excuse to pursue their goal. It sounds like a little of Column A and a little from Column B. Like most things.

HF was OpenAI's agents not Claude.

Claude, codex, pi, xerox, Kleenex, whatever

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#188

Post by reasonableklout »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #167
a2tech wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Cynicism misfire. AI companies are, rightfully, heavily distrusted. But the right application of cynicism is not "existential risk is a marketing campaign"; that's absurd motivated reasoning. The right application of cynicism, here, is "they're only saying things now because they see the writing on the wall and want to try to push for self-regulation rather than the desperately needed actual regulation and treaty".

+1

There is such a miasma of distrust right now. It's depressing because it is such a crucial time for tech & society.

To me, a good outcome of the HuggingFace/RubyGems/Wiki saga would be something like:

- OpenAI gets charged under CFAA or other law for damages and negligence. This would need to be a hefty amount to effectively deter future negligence considering the potential revenues from training a frontier model faster than competitors.

- An independent regulatory body is setup with investigation powers into future incidents. Laws prevent it from developing ties with the labs (such as disallowing funding and employee movement from labs to this body and vice versa).

- Some non-voluntary transparency rules are established that frontier labs have to follow when training new models. In the future, if there are loss-of-control incidents that result in loss of life, catastrophic damage, etc., criteria for deployment bans or compute controls could be added to this framework.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#190

Post by nullbio »

eab- wrote: post #9

The fact that this firm makes such defective environments is certainly worthy of attention, and most likely a completely irreversible reputational loss; however, I found the framing in this article of 'therefore all the P(doom) stuff is a psyop, specifically in order to defend this company' to be completely unjustified and frankly a little insane?

Why is it insane? It makes sense that Anthropic would want an insulating layer to do their dirty work and absolve themselves of culpability for distorting the facts.
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