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Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

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Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#181

Post by lifestyleguru »

robocat wrote: post #145
ahartmetz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one good thing is that they failed to take it private. Imagine how bad it would be with the current maintenance backlog and no public funding.

The New Zealand government sold their rail system, then Toll didn't make a success of it, so the government bought it back at a massive loss. Now rail is just a nightmare moneypit. But older voters love rail "it's efficient" so the government panders to them and wastes more expenditure on it. Edit: Currently for every $1.50 tax income from road user taxes and petroleum taxes: $1 is spent on roads, and 50 cents is spe…

Railways are a difficult infrastructure, only one notch less difficult than airplanes. Even in terms of population, New Zealand would need at least 10 million population for dense railway network to make sense. Then car speed limit in NZ of mere 100kmh is very low, trains could easily move people faster than a car.

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#182

Post by ablation »

felooboolooomba wrote: post #178
ablation wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sabotage doesn't hold up. The thing that rules it out is the braking, or rather lack of it. Passengers reported no screeching and no sudden deceleration before impact, which means the driver thought the line ahead was clear. Tampered track or an obstruction or some kind of remote hack (getting into the realms of fantasy there) would normally give him something to react to. This entirely fits a missed signal or a…

> This entirely fits a missed signal or a signalling/protection failure Perhaps a signalling/protection sabotage? > No official has hinted at foul play either That doesn't really mean much. Officials in the UK are incredibly reserved in hinting at something that they can't back up with evidence. Since they're still investigating, they keep their mouth shut. But yes, the sensible thing is to wait for the report.

Why stop there? Maybe it's sabotage all the way down, like turtles?

I'm sure that even if the official report totally excludes the possibility of sabotage, for some people that in itself will be the clearest possible sign that there was, in fact, sabotage at play.

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#185

Post by gpvos »

lxgr wrote: post #114
gpvos wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upgrade to 4G or 5G.

In the long term, sure, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRMCS is some way away, and I doubt they'll upgrade cab radios to 5G for the fallback path alone.

I have no idea which is cheaper, upgrading those or paying for one 2G network to remain on (at least enough cell towers to cover the railway network).

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#186

Post by gpvos »

gpvos wrote: post #100
dgellow wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sucks, sorry for this

Don't be sorry for me, I was only relaying earlier experiences.

Actually, I read stories that on some of the long distance trains with restauration they gave away all food and non-alcoholic drinks for free.

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#187

Post by manarth »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #161
ahartmetz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one good thing is that they failed to take it private. Imagine how bad it would be with the current maintenance backlog and no public funding.

Rail journeys in the UK doubled after privatisation. The service was dire under public ownership because it never got enough investment.

Some correlation but not necessarily causation.

Passenger numbers start rising before privatisation, and that was attributed to an uptick in the economy (after a period of recession).

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#188

Post by dcel »

gib444 wrote: post #168
dcel wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Max line speed of HS2 is 360km/h, with provision for 400 in some sections in future. This is entirely in line with many other modern HS lines. China’s been running regular 360km/h services for years. This is a project with a 200+ year shelf life. Designing to 300 or less would have been short sighted, and many of the changes to accommodate such high speeds actually reduce costs in the long term (slab track, headroom…

> Max line speed of HS2 is 360km/h, with provision for 400 in some sections in future. That's already been reduced to 320 km/h under this year's "HS2 reset". Which I imagine in reality will be 300 km/h normally at most, with even lower speeds seen day to day Interestingly the written report to the government stated "However, no railway in the UK, or globally, is currently engineered for 360 kph". Are you incorrect or…

The messaging, in general, has been abysmal. But capacity and speed are not separate concerns. Consistently high average speeds increase capacity - I wish this had been actually communicated.

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#189

Post by dcel »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #164
dcel wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Max line speed of HS2 is 360km/h, with provision for 400 in some sections in future. This is entirely in line with many other modern HS lines. China’s been running regular 360km/h services for years. This is a project with a 200+ year shelf life. Designing to 300 or less would have been short sighted, and many of the changes to accommodate such high speeds actually reduce costs in the long term (slab track, headroom…

One of the drivers of cost has been the high speed part. It meant the route needed to be straight which meant more tunnelling to avoid certain areas. Lower speed track would have allowed them to route around problem areas.

High speed rail does not need to be straight! You can get away with 6km radii at 360km/h on dedicated passenger lines. The high power output of the EMUs they’ve selected and all new OHLE power supplies mean that trains can accelerate and decelerate much more aggressively than on legacy mixed use lines like the WCML, allowing smaller radii in practice with short slower sections. It’s a myth that HS2 is expensive because it had to be straight.

The vast majority of the tunnelling for HS2 has been either to get in and out of dense urban areas without too much demolition, or to reduce the political cost of driving a building site through Tory heartlands (Chilterns AONB).

Re: Trains halted across Germany because of communication system problem

#190

Post by dcel »

bluGill wrote: post #146
dcel wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Max line speed of HS2 is 360km/h, with provision for 400 in some sections in future. This is entirely in line with many other modern HS lines. China’s been running regular 360km/h services for years. This is a project with a 200+ year shelf life. Designing to 300 or less would have been short sighted, and many of the changes to accommodate such high speeds actually reduce costs in the long term (slab track, headroom…

China has run at 360kmh before, but last I checked they mostly run slower. Air resistance is a killer as you go faster. So for trains 300 is usually about the best compromise between energy use and speed. If you want to go faster a jet at altitude is going to be much faster at a better fuel efficiency. High speeds make sense for long distances.

This is a project designed to last for centuries. We’re not even fossil free yet and already seeing days of negative electricity cost thanks to renewables. In 50 years the extra energy cost is going to be a rounding error. Locking ourselves into 300km/h forever to save a relatively small sum is unfathomably short sighted.
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