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GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

interconnects.ai

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Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#181

Post by giancarlostoro »

jerojero wrote: post #3

Open weight models from Chinese labs tend to be significantly cheaper. I think theyre absolutely needed. I can't afford 200 USD a month for personal use of coding AI, and I don't think such prices are reasonable for most of the world economy anyway. Not to mention US firms might be giving their employees a lot more than that. It's increasingly feeling, to me, that theres a gap building up between haves and have nots.…

As much as I don't like Mark Zuckerberg, part of me wishes he would get his head in the game and compete with these models, he's literally got all the capability to do so, and he could easily sell the model through deals with GCP, AWS, and Azure. Hell, Amazon needs a hot model they can host that's exclusive to them I feel like, maybe he can work something out with them, whatever the case, it seems so glaringly obvious to me, I'm not sure why he hasn't taken a stab at competing with Claude Code or at least frontier open models and then cutting a deal with cloud providers to recoup the costs of maintaining said models.

He's sitting on a frontier model letting it burn a hole in his wallet that could actually pay for itself.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#182

Post by khurs »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #181
jerojero wrote: post #3

Open weight models from Chinese labs tend to be significantly cheaper. I think theyre absolutely needed. I can't afford 200 USD a month for personal use of coding AI, and I don't think such prices are reasonable for most of the world economy anyway. Not to mention US firms might be giving their employees a lot more than that. It's increasingly feeling, to me, that theres a gap building up between haves and have nots.…

As much as I don't like Mark Zuckerberg, part of me wishes he would get his head in the game and compete with these models, he's literally got all the capability to do so, and he could easily sell the model through deals with GCP, AWS, and Azure. Hell, Amazon needs a hot model they can host that's exclusive to them I feel like, maybe he can work something out with them, whatever the case, it seems so glaringly obviou…

Meta internally have been using Google Gemini

"Meta has been using Google’s Gemini large language model for most of its moderation and customer support, but staff have recently been told to switch to Meta’s new foundational model, Muse Spark, the people said."

https://www.ft.com/content/39251a31-4a9d-4870-b86c-dc6353d67...

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#183

Post by windexh8er »

selcuka wrote: post #70
devmor wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don’t find it that useful for most tasks, but if say, you get paid $50/hr for your work and it saves you more than 4 hours of work in a month, there you go.

Obviously this assumes that you can find 4+ extra hours of $50/hr work every month, or you can work 4 hours less. Neither of these assumptions is correct for people who work for a fixed salary.

I think this is the rub the enterprise will be forced to grapple with. Not everyone is going to get $200 worth of value for the organization. In fact since it's not a restricted tool some will waste time and company resources using it. Undoubtedly some will get the value out of it, but it's very likely, that these are the same people providing more than what they're paid already. Nothing has changed other than, potentially, time savings and (hopefully) output improvement. Neither of those are any sort of guarantee though, either. Subjective systems are hard to show value, especially in the long term.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#184

Post by khurs »

Balinares wrote: post #2

I can't help wondering what kind of models we'll see coming out of China once it gets its own chip fabs up and running. Right now it sounds like the US's export ban is not slowing them down a whole lot.

>Right now it sounds like the US's export ban is not slowing them down a whole lot.

Just costing them a lot more money as they pay multiples more buying on the underground grey market.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#185

Post by Mossy9 »

SyneRyder wrote: post #152
kreelman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks so much for being bold enough to be fairly open about the costs, how you arrange billing and the advantages that's given you. I've been fooling around with DeepSeek 4 agentically. It's probably not as good as Anthropic offerings, but even those seem to be roiled in politics and strife and DeepSeek 4 is very good IMHO. I'll later try out GLM. I'm in Australia. The government has set up a "return and earn" schem…

> There is probably a market for Deepseek/GLM served from non CCP available servers. I might even look into how hard that would be to setup here. Please do. There is definitely a market for Deepseek / GLM hosted from non-China servers, there's over 20 providers for GLM 5.2 on OpenRouter alone... and they're all either Singapore (home of Z.AI / GLM), China, or US. There is nothing yet listed on OpenRouter from Europe…

Cortecs (EU router) lists GLM 5.2 from Tensorix and Nebius https://cortecs.ai/detailedServerlessView/glm-5.2

So two European providers at least

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#187

Post by swiftcoder »

whazor wrote: post #165
fbrncci wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made me realize something. I routinely spend upwards of 500$ per month on LLMs for coding (expensed towards clients). However I live in a place where 500$ is around the avg. salary. I’m lucky that I know my way around western clients. Clients who pay these expenses and are happy to work with me because I am still about 50% cheaper than local talent in EU/US, while my salary at home converts to an upper class inco…

The problem is that the differences between flagship and local models are compounding heavily. An 4% different could be massive when you keep iterating on the same code base.

> The problem is that the differences between flagship and local models are compounding heavily

This depends a lot on how you work, and how much of the architectural thinking you do yourself.

People seem to lose sight of the fact that a flash model today is as powerful as a frontier model from a year ago. If you were happy with GPT 4.x, you should be ecstatic that equivalent power is now basically free...

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#188

Post by jabroni_salad »

tacomagick wrote: post #109
praveer13 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For personal use I’m considering using the frontier models from openai or anthropic to create a plan with research and brainstorming etc with enough details for cheap models to be able to follow (glm, deepseek etc) - with openrouter - will monitor how cheap and effective that turns out to be.

For my case Openrouter breaks Deepseek caching and charges me multiple times over what I pay for Deepseek's API, with 2$ I was able to get around 120M tokens from deepseek easily when Openrouter could only barely do 250k

deepseek's direct API is super loosey goosey about caching. On multiple occasions I have gotten cache hits resuming a session from the previous day.

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#189

Post by nubg »

A question I always have is, how to the AI labs safeguard the leak of their model? Training a cutting edge model basically cost a minimum of hundreds of millions of dollars. And its all contained within a file. Okay, that file might be 500GB large, but its still just one blob that is worth almost a billion dollars. And they need to train new models every few weeks, have lots of people with access to it to debug it, run inference etc. I wonder when we will see the first leaks? Imagine if e.g. Opus 4.8 got leaked. Wouldnt that bankrupt Anthropic?

Re: GLM-5.2 is a step change for open agents

#190

Post by Sanzig »

trollbridge wrote: post #180
Sanzig wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same issue in Canada - domestic inference capability for the open models is woefully behind.

Canada has fewer excuses, given sparsely populated places that are cold with nearly infinite water and extremely cheap electricity.

Yep, agreed. Main issue in Canada is a notoriously slow and stingy investment ecosystem. Resource-wise we're incredibly well positioned.
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