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Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

newscientist.com

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Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#181

Post by nradov »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #176
nradov wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an ignorant comment. Ukraine has attacked Moscow many times with drones and cruise missiles. And good luck to them, I hope they destroy Moscow completely. https://abcnews.com/amp/International/ukrainian-drones-targe... Ukraine is already using unmanned combat ground vehicles. They're not too far away from building autonomous weapons similar to those in some of the Terminator movies, although they probably won't…

ukraine has never used a long range missile against civilian targets in Moscow its home built Flamingo has been reportedly used only a few times since february of this year in long range, as recently as just yesterday the US and EU restricts ukraine's ability to use ATACMS or SCALP in any long range way of course, US and EU are discussing withdrawing some kinds of vital war support, which is my point. These are the i…

What's your point? Ukraine has successfully hit many military targets in Moscow with a variety of weapons. Why would they bother with civilian targets when there are so many vulnerable military targets to choose from?

Ukraine was barely a functional country in 2014. It took them a long time to get their act together and build a defense industry. Rocket science isn't easy.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#182

Post by pornel »

y-curious wrote: post #144
Arubis wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oof. "Price per perp" is so perfectly aligned with LinkedIn writing style I'm surprised I hadn't seen it already.

I do like the implied moral superiority. “Price per objectively bad guy or gal” or PPOBGOG is being workshopped now.

This will be very controversial in the USA due to "or gal" being gender-inclusive, splitting Republicans and Democrats over whether the Palantir-Raytheon fast-track bill should say PPOBG or PPOBGOG.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#183

Post by maxdo »

nozzlegear wrote: post #126
maxdo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the reality https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/YW1ldcsYwF That area is a wasteland . No one lives walk there among civilians with a rare exception more over drive. You probably do not understand what Russia turned these areas to. It was the most populated area in Ukraine . Now it’s an empty land .

Ukraine launches drones into populated Russian cities too though, right? We can justify its use in a wasteland battlefield today, but the fear is that it's used in a Russian or Ukrainian city tomorrow. (FWIW, and not that it should matter, I support Ukraine in the war. Just not the development of autonomous kill decision drones.)

as any weapon it can go good or bad. Drones change the ratio needed to attack someone. RN it's x4 of resources from here on it's probably will be x10 x20.

This factor on it's own could scale down amount of wars.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#184

Post by maxdo »

namuol wrote: post #175
maxdo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the reality https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/YW1ldcsYwF That area is a wasteland . No one lives walk there among civilians with a rare exception more over drive. You probably do not understand what Russia turned these areas to. It was the most populated area in Ukraine . Now it’s an empty land .

Oh I understand and am sympathetic/stand in solidarity with Ukrainian fighters, but war crimes against war criminals are still war crimes.

It's only your assumptions. If drone is trained on military trucks etc. why is this a crime, it is much better compared to landmines.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#185

Post by petre »

alkonaut wrote: post #154
namuol wrote: post #94

> “We just launch it and we know everything will be dead – everything that will be found there in this particular area will be dead,” says Kokhanovskyy. “There is no connection to the drone at all, you cannot see the video, nothing… Everything it sees will be killed.” This is a clear war crime. We don’t need to update any international laws, do we? This is by definition indiscriminate, like landmines or chemical weap…

An aerial bomb is equally indiscriminate. You make a judgement about the target value and the estimate collateral damage/civilian casualties and you fire if the equation is reasonable. Same here. If it's a muddy square kilometer of trenches do you KNOW there are no civilians? No. But it's not indiscriminate. The target area selection is the key. You can't release an indiscriminate autonomus killer drone into a city o…

> You can't release an indiscriminate autonomus killer drone into a city of course.

Already used in Gaza, only it operates with a hit list, which is also probabilistic. These Hamas linked operatives are most of the time also civillians most if the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_G...

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#186

Post by dash2 »

inigyou wrote: post #150
dash2 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "killed, enslaved, and/or tortured most of the citizens of the regions it's already captured" is an exaggeration. That is not to deny Russian war crimes, which are clearly large-scale and horrendous. But I don't think the majority of people in those regions have been killed or enslaved. I'm a big supporter of Ukraine and have donated to the war effort and hosted Ukrainian refugees.

What happen to Bucha and Mariupol? Why did they get wiped off the map? Was it a tsunami?

Do you believe that the majority of inhabitants even of Mariupol have been killed, tortured or enslaved? If so, could you point me to a source for that? Wikipedia reports its population has dropped from about 425K to an estimated 120K, but reports an estimate that 200K people fled; they report a high-end estimate of 25K people killed during the 2022 siege itself.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#187

Post by SJC_Hacker »

namuol wrote: post #94

> “We just launch it and we know everything will be dead – everything that will be found there in this particular area will be dead,” says Kokhanovskyy. “There is no connection to the drone at all, you cannot see the video, nothing… Everything it sees will be killed.” This is a clear war crime. We don’t need to update any international laws, do we? This is by definition indiscriminate, like landmines or chemical weap…

Chemical weapons weren’t banned because they were indiscriminate. They were banned because often they didn’t kill, but would maim. To the state, that is far worse than having their soldiers killed because it means they have a bunch of soldiers who cant work because of severe disability. Which creates a whole heap of social and/or economic problems down the line. It’s much better to the state if they can just write a check for 10k quid or whatever to the next of kin

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#189

Post by flowerthoughts »

I can't imagine the news headlines the first time a stolen such drone is used in a (civialian) terrorist attack. Dark times ahead. Fear is already driving polarization and class society where I live. This will just heighten it. Hopefully this is swift, and we return to a post-WWII "can-do" build-up society.

Re: Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time

#190

Post by alkonaut »

petre wrote: post #185
alkonaut wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An aerial bomb is equally indiscriminate. You make a judgement about the target value and the estimate collateral damage/civilian casualties and you fire if the equation is reasonable. Same here. If it's a muddy square kilometer of trenches do you KNOW there are no civilians? No. But it's not indiscriminate. The target area selection is the key. You can't release an indiscriminate autonomus killer drone into a city o…

> You can't release an indiscriminate autonomus killer drone into a city of course. Already used in Gaza, only it operates with a hit list, which is also probabilistic. These Hamas linked operatives are most of the time also civillians most if the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_G...

> it operates with a hit list

"hit list" sounds very "discriminate"

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