Live data from Hacker News

GTA 6 Developers Unionize

rockstarintel.com

181–190 of 561 posts

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#181
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the causality inverted. People want big tech on their resume because it makes them look qualified. People with top qualifications work at big tech because of pay. If low quality engineers worked in big tech, it wouldn't be a coveted qualification.

The causality of what? I'm probably missing something obvious here. The cause of people getting paid less in game development I said has to do with margins (although I now think there is more to it than that). > People want big tech on their resume because it makes them look qualified. I think I said that? > People with top qualifications work at big tech because of pay. Actually I am not sure if that is true. I thin…

Carmack level folks are the exception. the vast majority of faang interest is money. In fact if youve been in dev long enough, youd see even the makeup of the tyipical eng has changed, there are quite a few normies in the field these days, many of whom im not sure even like coding at all. Its seen as a reliably high paying field worth steering towards regardless of interest. It has lately reminded me of the kinds of people id see in medicine. smart, capable, not particularly interested in the field as such.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#182
post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Is it as simple as supply/demand? People love games and game-loving developers are willing to take lower compensation to be in the industry? As a former obsessed gamer, I remember in my 20s I almost would have been willing to work at iD Software without pay if they let me.

This is the answer to all price questions, including this one.

There are a large number of people that are passionate about games. Moreso than say, ERP software.

And this holds true relative to demand (gaming is ~$300B/year globally).

---

Additionally, most software engineering is not FAANG. That is the upper end of it.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#183
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as simple as supply/demand? People love games and game-loving developers are willing to take lower compensation to be in the industry? As a former obsessed gamer, I remember in my 20s I almost would have been willing to work at iD Software without pay if they let me.

I think it is mostly just margins. Sure there are lots of people willing to work for no very little money for game dev but I would say there are tons of people willing to work for very little money for FAANG companies because they want that on their resume. In fact since we are on hackernews that is kind of thing people wanting to be entrepreneurs do. Work at recognizable big tech company for a few years. Leave to be…

begs the question why there is a good supply of eng on low margin business though, given the skills transfer cleanly to higher margin businesses.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will negatively affect shareholders which is the opposite of the employees' job. Maximizing the value of the stock to shareholders over time.

I hope you tip your earnings back to corporate and organize your peers to suppress your wages

I do a personal stock buy back which applies upward pressure to the stock price. I don't organize to suppress wages due to wanting to avoid the secondary effects of driving away good talent.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#185
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then that is an argument to reform and innovate on unions, not do away with them altogether.

"Are unions net benefit for the general public" and "whether reforming or abolishing the unions is the best course of action for the general public" are two separate questions. The unions could be beneficial (and still a reform could improve this benefit) or they could be harmful (but a reform could make them beneficial without abolishing them). The original claim was they are beneficial right now, in heir current fo…

If it’s a matter of proof, these are all links already posted on this site:

https://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/union-effect-in-california-...

https://www.epi.org/publication/unions-decline-inequality-ri...

https://werd.io/unions-work/

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-06-13/unions...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/19/20727283/u...

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#186
post #5

This is great news, unions not only improve working conditions, but also improve the final product by not having underpaid stressed staff with high turn-over. It's a good sign for the future product quality of any company to see workers unionise.

Exactly, that is why US ports are the most efficient in the world.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#187
post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Historically it has always been a bottom tier paying industry. Same like animation and VFX. On top of this, now you have AI and almost anyone can create some impressive games using stuff like Claude code. So, I foresee it will only get worse from here.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#188
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying the only differentiator between good and bad developers is the aesthetic of the code itself? And not the actual computation the code does? Wild take honestly.

As counterintuitive as it sounds, it turns out video game consumers don't care much about the actual computation either. Most games are riddled with bugs, and it has next to no impact on sales. Rather, having weird, even embarrassing bugs can make players look at the game more fondly. Skyrim is one of the best selling games ever. Ostensibly it's about fighting dragons. But "Skyrim moment" does not mean an epic battle…

Buggy games have destroyed franchises. Gothic 3 being a prime example. Contrary to the memes skyrim is not even close to the worst offenders in terms of bugs. Besides bad code does not only lead to bugs. It can lead to bad gameplay, bad performance, missing features, slipped deadlines. A things users care a lot about.

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#189
post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

“Working on GTA 6” is a dream job for many millions of young people and there is only one rockstar north, if you quit the line of people willing to replace you for minimum wage would be thousands long, the number willing to do it for free would be hundreds long.

“Writing react components” “deploying a database” “debugging the Android build” are not dream jobs and you can do it at hundreds of companies

Re: GTA 6 Developers Unionize

#190
post #4

Can anyone comment on why "big video game" dev pay has lagged "big tech" pay so badly? Ostensibly they are doing remarkably similar engineering problem solving, so why is there such a disparity?

Modern AAA video game development has much more in common with a traditional factory assembly line than a typical tech startup (for better or worse) - or maybe movie production is an even better comparison (especially now where most of the production seems to happen 'in post'). Also VC doesn't seem to be all that interested in investing into game dev companies, I guess because it's such an extreme hit-and-miss busine…

Game VC is called being a publisher.
Post reply on HN