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Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

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Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#181

Post by supergeek133 »

vincnetas wrote: post #3

This comment has really nice translation of corpo-speek to human language : https://github.com/robinostlund/homeassistant-volkswagencarn... Why are they shooting them selves in the feet? Is this really a tangible income stream? Is it really increasing security?

I have first hand view of traffic Home Assistant creates.. there is an upside down usage model.

Infrastructure (servers, bandwidth, etc) costs money.

For better or worse, most devices don't have local interfaces. Some matter devices exist in the past year or two, but not all data/functions are available via matter. Older devices likely won't ever be updated to support matter.

Also lump in the fact that HA is a locally run/focused application, it isn't super compatible with a cloud based API/data delivery system without some additional development from the OEM end.

Last I did the math for an internal system.. in 24 hours HA traffic was ~20% of total, for less than 1% of users. That's wild. Mostly because each instance is pinging the API directly every X or less minutes.

If an executive here heard that math, they'd likely ask to block it as well. Right or wrong that's how people react.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#182

Post by joe_mamba »

mschuster91 wrote: post #166
joe_mamba wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla got a shitload of government funding, including a 465 million dollar loan How much money, grants, tax-breaks, favorable loans and regulation, etc did the German, French, Italian car companies get from their local governments? > But that doesn't mean the US government isn't willing to help things along, at least for those well connected. As if Schroeder, Merkel, Scholz, etc didn't roll over backwards for their…

> How much money, grants, tax-breaks, favorable loans and regulation, etc did the German, French, Italian car companies get from their local governments? Nowhere near close to that.

CoL and labor costs are also lower in EU than in US so the less money goes further

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#183

Post by port11 »

mixdup wrote: post #167
Confiks wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, this seems to be exactly the area where the Data Act could be used to regain access. Unfortunately it seems that it's not possible to directly sue (e.g.) Volkswagen to get access, unlike the GDPR where you have direct standing under article 79 [1]. There doesn't seem to be much written about enforcing the Data Act, so I looked at the regulation directly. Article 39 [2] seems to require to first lodge a compla…

The hoops the EU goes through to be both a federal and also not a federal entity at the same time is crazy Just let the EU enforce these laws like the US DOJ or FTC would. If I had to file a complaint with the Alabama FCC or the Mississippi Federal Reserve to get relief under federal regulations I would quite simply not bother

Hard pass. I think it’s fair, less corrupt, and more interesting that the Belgian DPA rules over Belgian privacy complaints.

We might argue they will produce better/worse results than another DPA. Okay. But the whole point of much EU policy is that the member states preside over stuff themselves. That seems better than a (more) centralised bureaucracy.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#184

Post by stronglikedan »

mrweasel wrote: post #66
haritha-j wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are they shooting them selves in the feet? Because people will still buy their cars. The average Joe has very little regard for their privacy. We've been trained to be numb. > Is this really a tangible income stream? Yep. > Is it really increasing security? Nope.

How is this a tangible income stream? I suspect that the amount of customers willing to pay for some weird API access or We Connect offering is rather limited. It would have to be bundled into some other solution, which again I'd guess have a limited customer base. I have VW and I suppose We Connect, there's not a single thing that's worth paying for, not when you have CarPlay and Android Auto (or whatever that's cal…

> How is this a tangible income stream?

saving money on bandwidth

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#185

Post by Toutouxc »

nunez wrote: post #159

I've been doing smart home stuff for a long time. This is one of the reasons why I got off of Home Assistant. It's a very cool and functional project but it is entirely dependent on companies keeping their APIs open, or, more commonly, companies not patching teh magic that makes reverse-engineered APIs possible. Unfortunately, developments over the years have NOT gone in their favor. Tesla, Ring, MyQ, Ecobee and prob…

> It's a very cool and functional project but it is entirely dependent on companies keeping their APIs open

I have more than 50 entities in HA, there isn't a company in the world that could make a single one of them stop working.

Honestly I think that out of the things you mention, HA is the furthest from a ticking timebomb.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#186

Post by wolvoleo »

port11 wrote: post #183
mixdup wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hoops the EU goes through to be both a federal and also not a federal entity at the same time is crazy Just let the EU enforce these laws like the US DOJ or FTC would. If I had to file a complaint with the Alabama FCC or the Mississippi Federal Reserve to get relief under federal regulations I would quite simply not bother

Hard pass. I think it’s fair, less corrupt, and more interesting that the Belgian DPA rules over Belgian privacy complaints. We might argue they will produce better/worse results than another DPA. Okay. But the whole point of much EU policy is that the member states preside over stuff themselves. That seems better than a (more) centralised bureaucracy.

Not in this case I think. This affects customers Europe wide and it should be solved at EU level.

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#187

Post by wolvoleo »

Roark66 wrote: post #144
vincnetas wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, regarding additional profit stream, to access VW data before you still needed WeConnect subscription (100€ a year), just that before you could use another app or automation to access the data. Now you MUST use exclusively WeConnect and partners to access same data even though you paying already for subscription.

And that is why I'll not be buying a vw ever again despite being a fan of the brand so far.

Dieselgate should have been enough reason already IMO. And VW's response to it. Throwing some low level employees under the bus (transporter?) so that the big bosses could walk free

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#188

Post by fcpk »

And this is why there should be very very unpleasant for manufacturer legislation about allowing access to hardware you buy. This is a generic problem not limited to automotive industry, though they are a major offender. Locked down android auto, systems, buses, everything is proprietary and you are the whims of the manufacturers decisions

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#189

Post by mixdup »

port11 wrote: post #183
mixdup wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hoops the EU goes through to be both a federal and also not a federal entity at the same time is crazy Just let the EU enforce these laws like the US DOJ or FTC would. If I had to file a complaint with the Alabama FCC or the Mississippi Federal Reserve to get relief under federal regulations I would quite simply not bother

Hard pass. I think it’s fair, less corrupt, and more interesting that the Belgian DPA rules over Belgian privacy complaints. We might argue they will produce better/worse results than another DPA. Okay. But the whole point of much EU policy is that the member states preside over stuff themselves. That seems better than a (more) centralised bureaucracy.

But the EU is incredibly bureaucratic. I'm not saying the US is perfectly functional, especially recently, but a lot of the processes involved here are incredibly Byzantine to accommodate enforcement not being at the top

Re: Volkswagen blocks Home Assistant by requiring client assertion

#190

Post by b3lvedere »

cisophrene wrote: post #147
b3lvedere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting read. Thank you for the link.

Another interesting case: a proven case of bit-flip that affected a voting machine in Belgium: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/subatomic-particl...

“ A mobile phone with 500 kilobytes of memory might only have one error every 28 years, but a router farm, such as those used by Internet providers, with 25 gigabytes of memory could have one every 17 hours.”

I wonder if current AI devices have protection against this…

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