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That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

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181–190 of 204 posts

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#181

Fascinating! Only tangentially related: I've definitely heard of PMMA, and didn't realize it was plexiglass! It's used regularly in semiconductor fabrication. https://kayakuam.com/product/structsure/pmma-positive-resist... (also waaaay down on the list of uses at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poly(methyl_methacrylate) but I thought that first link was clearer. Look for "In semiconductor research and industry, PMMA ai…

[deleted]

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#182
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is actually really easy, and it's been implemented successfully before: selective import taxes. You set import taxes so that they offset price advantages. If a country has shitty environmental laws, crappy labor protections, etc. then you prices that into their import taxes. That way they don't gain any advantages in a race to the bottom based on things that you care about in your own country. If a country…

Or we could just let it go offshore? Do we have to do everything here?

They are not saying that we have to do everything here, they are saying: If you want to move your mfg. to a country that has less environmental regulation enforcement, labor law enforcement and other things that we care about here, then the goods you are shipping back should be tariffed accordingly.

If we as a people pass environmental laws & labor laws because we feel that these things are important then why are we accepting products that are made in violation of our standards.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#183
post #4

Why wouldn't there be passive protection systems designed in? After a big earthquake you don't want to have to also deal with other emergencies (à la Fukushima). Aside: One good side-effect of the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake being so horrific is that it stopped the self-obsessed whinging in my city (Christchurch was still trying to recover from an earthquake).

Why? For the same reason our reactors do not have containment buildings around them, like those in the West. For the same reason we don't use properly enriched fuel in our cores. For the same reason we are the only nation that builds water-cooled, graphite-moderated reactors with a positive void coefficient.

It's cheaper.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#184

Being an armchair expert, I wondered if they couldn't have flown a quadcopter with a small drilling machine and drill a hole on the top to relive pressure?

It seems like the issue wasn't the pressure so much, but the temperature. The contents were supposed to be stored at 50 degrees. The thermometer for the tank was reading 100 degrees, but nobody knew what the actual temperature was, because the thermometer's maximum reading was 100. So the challenge was to figure out how to cool things down (which would relieve the pressure in turn)

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#185
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree that deregulation is a complete hard no for most people, but that's because removing bad/watered down regulation isn't enough. Calling for "deregulation" is like saying "defund the police". A very small number of radicals claim to actually want that, but most people think that something better has to fill the void. Bad regulation needs to be replaced by good regulation. If what you mean by "Deregulation" is…

"Defund the police" was such a dumb slogan. "Demilitarize the police" would have been much better.

Agreed, although in addition to that the hope was to do other things too like divert funds out of tasks the police do that they shouldn't be doing in the first place (like mental health calls and wellness checks) and into social services/EMS instead and also away from internal affairs and into independent/community oversight boards (no more policing themselves).

I doubt any pithy slogan would have encompassed all of it, but the least they could have done was avoid something that most people would reject instantly for being insane. It's amazing that so many people managed to get past the slogan at all to get into the "well actually what we mean is..." and it was totally predictable that the slogan would be weaponized against the movement by opponents

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree that deregulation is a complete hard no for most people, but that's because removing bad/watered down regulation isn't enough. Calling for "deregulation" is like saying "defund the police". A very small number of radicals claim to actually want that, but most people think that something better has to fill the void. Bad regulation needs to be replaced by good regulation. If what you mean by "Deregulation" is…

There was a pretty decent campaign locally to make it legal to deliver fixed line broadband services. But once you convince someone that the legislation exists and the penalties exist for supplying fixed line broadband services, the next goal posts slide into place, and they reflexively defend the idea that the government would fine people more for overbuilding the national carrier to a greater extent than importing…

Are you sure that the "Internet is a natural monopoly" people were actually people and not just bots and shills? The only reason I could see real people wanting a monopoly would be if they were pushing for the government to handle the infrastructure and then lease out access to whoever wants to offer services over the lines. There's a case that it doesn't make sense to have 50 different companies all running physical cables everywhere. What doesn't make sense is only allowing one private company to do it and leaving yourself at their mercy.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#187
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having the chemical in one location doesn't make it active all over, you need to disperse it. Like you need to shake glow-in-the-dark bracelets.

Well then... make a matrix of such fuse-containers? (say every 20cm or whatever) I guess manufacturing such a matrix would be pretty expensive though, you'd need to carefully automate its production I think. It would also definitely interfere with flow of fluid in the tank.

I was thinking multiple long skinny tubes with etchings that make them more likely to split lengthwise. Maybe with a spring loaded/powered agitator so when the tube breaks there's some mechanical flinging/mixing of the inner chemical.

But I'm not a chemical processes engineer, so I don't know how much mixing is needed. But the existing emergency plan was to inject the the chemical through a single valve, so it seems like the dispersion and mixing requirements in this case seems to be low.

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#188

When this is all over, when they peel the metal tank away, will they have a gigantic clear block of material?

https://media.springernature.com/lw685/springer-static/image... So... maybe?

A couple weeks ago when they called me back to the lab the supervisor had one of the clear polymer disks on their desk that had formed in a pint sample bottle that was about half full.

The sample recycling operator came across the occasional one that had polymerized, over months of identical ambient storage to the other bottles in the case which could still be handled as liquids.

Broke it out of the bottle and brought it into the office, where it was completely odorless and sitting there like a promotional acrylic paperweight with nothing embedded inside to promote :)

If this tank has a giant disk of clear acrylic at the bottom, it "might" be unprecedented to remove it intact and turn it into a fairly sizable lens if possible. If not clear, maybe even a mirror of some kind anyway.

Although there is probably some internal piping from inside the tank, embedded for display purposes primarily at this point ;)

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#189
post #9

By the miraculous grace of God, a crack allowed pressure to bleed & enabled our engine company to prevent thermal runaway. A BLEVE was the projected outcome, a firefighters worst nightmare - see the Kingman BLEVE - https://www.cityofkingman.gov/government/departments-a-h/fir...

Why bring God into the discussion? Do you think he’s monitoring our lives actively? Why is he a he? Does God have male genitalia?

Ughhh don't be this guy, please...

Re: That Methyl Methacrylate Tank

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then... make a matrix of such fuse-containers? (say every 20cm or whatever) I guess manufacturing such a matrix would be pretty expensive though, you'd need to carefully automate its production I think. It would also definitely interfere with flow of fluid in the tank.

Easy to imagine protective mechanisms in hindsight, now imagine you have to build a system for every tank of every chemical in the world

I am imagining some sort of regulations that enforce the creation and installation of appropriate safety systems upon all similar sites in the affected jurisdiction.

And a standard to prevent similar danger elsewhere in the world.

Or is that too fantastic? Perhaps I should stick with the distopian fiction I so love. Why haven't flying cars taken off yet?

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