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Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

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Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#181

Post by zerozerotwo »

pxeboot wrote: post #115
landl0rd wrote: post #75

I think this is bad and antisocial and you should shut it down. I like imessage because businesses cannot easily use it. The people who are most willing to pay for what you provide will do so because they can thereby annoy me in interfaces where other spammers cannot. More practically beeper got blocked for this reason despite not even targeting commercial messaging.

> I like imessage because businesses cannot easily use it. The people who are most willing to pay for what you provide will do so because they can thereby annoy me in interfaces where other spammers cannot. I strongly disagree. If I need to chat with a business, an airline for example, why would I want to use SMS instead of iMessage? It’s the same app, but being able to easily send screenshots or photos and know they…

There is already an Apple business api that allows validated businesses to talk to you over iMessage. It does require you to agree not to spam though (try Home Depot on iMessage to see)

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#182

Post by djfergus »

garygao wrote: post #149
Banditoz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple wouldn't ban us... To me this screams you haven't talked to Apple. Given how macabre they were towards Beeper Mini, I almost expect the same treatment for Chert. Nonetheless, best of luck if you can pull it off.

I think what we're doing is fundamentally different from Beeper in terms of positioning. Beeper is trying to offer an additional interface to iMessage when it already exists for humans. What we're doing is giving agents the ability to interact with iMessage users, which is something that fundamentally can't be done on the current interface. The fact that Apple hasn't banned agents like Poke is a good indicator that t…

> giving agents the ability to interact with iMessage users

As an iMessage user I want the opposite. I’m happy for agents to contact me through the cesspool of telegram or WhatsApp - on those apps I expect it and am suitably on guard. I highly value Apple’s policing of their ecosystem so I know that when someone iMessages me I can trust they are who they say you are.

I’m curious and fascinated in the pitch for this startup and how you convinced investors that you could overcome the obvious hurdles. You must have some Travis kalanick level of “we will break the rules and it will just work out”. Hoping you pivot your talents to something I can root for.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#183

Post by evilduck »

garygao wrote: post #149
Banditoz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple wouldn't ban us... To me this screams you haven't talked to Apple. Given how macabre they were towards Beeper Mini, I almost expect the same treatment for Chert. Nonetheless, best of luck if you can pull it off.

I think what we're doing is fundamentally different from Beeper in terms of positioning. Beeper is trying to offer an additional interface to iMessage when it already exists for humans. What we're doing is giving agents the ability to interact with iMessage users, which is something that fundamentally can't be done on the current interface. The fact that Apple hasn't banned agents like Poke is a good indicator that t…

Poke looks like a startup with a 2 month head start that's also unvetted in the market, not a case study of permitted behavior and success at subverting iMessage with agents. Does anyone know if Apple even knows Poke exists yet?

Likewise, Poke also looks doomed. They're creating... OpenClaw but worse. OpenClaw hype and interest has recently fallen off a cliff, I don't think the angels will be getting their money back on that one.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#187

Post by rafram »

garygao wrote: post #130
zitterbewegung wrote: post #109

Why would I use this instead of using iMessage for Business that is the official way and is more robust and doesn’t violate ToS. If you get shut down I have to redo this setup using Apple ?

iMessage for Business is very restrictive and has a really long approval process. On top of this, it also sends gray bubbles and doesn't allow any outbound, which prevents consented outbound use cases such as form fill text back.

I can’t recall the last time I received an automated SMS that I’d say was “consented.” Not that that’s an adjective I’d ever use.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#188

Post by bobbiechen »

satvikpendem wrote: post #44

Isn't this a direct violation of Apple's terms of service? You say you aren't spammy but at a certain point you will get banned. I'm not sure how YC funded this based on the platform risk alone but I guess these days they're throwing anything and everything at the wall.

YC also funded Sendblue which does something similar: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/sendblue

It looks like a straightforward ToS violation to me as well. I guess it's another "ask forgiveness, not permission" move.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#189

Post by hatsix »

antiframe wrote: post #153
garygao wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the "wrong" way, it's just different. iMessage works well for businesses that want to create a conversational experience in their customer service that conveys care and attention

I am sorry. Can one not a conversational experience using RCS? What, in specific, does iMessage do that RCS does not which prevents RCS from having a conversational experience? I suspect you are actually implying something different than conversational experience or using it as a substitute for a completely different concept.

This impersonates a person on a platform which has generally prevented that... so people will be more likely to have a conversation, as they don't expect it to be a bot. The fact that they'll have to rotate out iMessage accounts so the message history will kill any possible gain from the deception.

What I don't understand is why a business would want to bifurcate their messaging stack... this is a solution that only works for half of their customers... for a business that doesn't have an app.

Re: Launch HN: Chert (YC P26) – Twilio for iMessage

#190

Post by [deleted] »

garygao wrote: post #130
zitterbewegung wrote: post #109

Why would I use this instead of using iMessage for Business that is the official way and is more robust and doesn’t violate ToS. If you get shut down I have to redo this setup using Apple ?

iMessage for Business is very restrictive and has a really long approval process. On top of this, it also sends gray bubbles and doesn't allow any outbound, which prevents consented outbound use cases such as form fill text back.

[deleted]
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