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Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

bbc.com

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Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#181

Post by reaperducer »

cf100clunk wrote: post #98

Some numbers to consider: ~465,000 legally verified signatories to the federalist petition to declare Alberta permanently part of Canada ~360,000 status First Nations persons within Alberta ~330,000 legally unverified signatories to the separatist petition to hold a referendum to separate from Canada First Nations have successfully argued in court that as consultations with them are required by the Canadian Constitut…

Apart from the fact that the Alberta population is ~4 million, it is difficult to see how separatists can figure they'd win a referendum to separate.

Isn't the important number not the total population, but the number of people who show up to vote?

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#182

Post by llm_nerd »

jszymborski wrote: post #5

Important context, this referendum isn't binding, but rather a referendum on whether a binding referendum should be held. Separation is deeply unpopular, but Smith has been putting her thumb on the scale every step of the way, and this non-binding referendum isn't subject to the Clarity act in the same way that a subsequent binding one would be.

Smith is doing this because now outrageous amounts of American plutocrat money is going to flow into pushing the "leave Canada" position (from ketamine-rot trash like Musk. American plutocrats despise that a functional country not ruled by the super-rich sits so close). Smith has gone to the US to plan with her American partners repeatedly.

And they aren't first pushing becoming a token raped resource of the US, because that is massively unpopular. Instead they're pushing a magical "super Canadians within Canada but also not beholden to those libs and I get to pardon people" middle ground.

This is all so comically transparent and obvious.

Oh and fun fact -- a "Forever Canada" petition gained far more signatures, far quicker (and without people stealing election lists or faking signatures). Smith's UCP stalled and sat on it, but then raced to follow the "democratic will" of the tiny subset of Albertans that are calling for separation.

I understand that Albertan Canadians stick with leaders like UCP because that's their only conservative choice, but this is going to turn out incredibly poorly for you. Even this stupid question is purposefully ambiguous enough that any answer can be construed as "yes, leave".

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#184

Post by arrowsmith »

gausswho wrote: post #163
arrowsmith wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Brexit referendum was non-binding for important constitutional reasons. Legally, leaving required an Act of Parliament. To hold a binding referendum, they would have had to pass an Act that says "here are the exact details of how we'll leave the EU, coming into force if the referendum passes". But that would have required them to figure out all the exact details of what it means to leave the EU, and they didn't b…

Maybe you can help illuminate something that confused me about the result of the referendum. I thought it was worded such that voting yes would lead to a committee determining the details, and that that would lead to a second referendum? It felt like the UK population was tricked into voting for a 'sure I'll hear out your plan' which then turned into 'cool, we'll make a plan and then begin implementing it'.

I don’t remember anyone before the referendum saying it would be the first of two.

A lot of people pushed unsuccessfully for a second referendum after the first one but that was never based on any pre-existing legalities or precedent, it was just an attempt to overturn the first result from people who were upset that theyd lost.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#185

Post by theeyescanner »

cf100clunk wrote: post #113

A related issue is whether, or to what extent, a seceded entity can itself be subject to secession. This concern came up in Quebec when Cree and other groups suggested they'd drop out of post-separation Quebec and ''rejoin'' Canada. Quebec separatists were outraged at the thought of First Nations and pro-Federalist geographical areas turning their new entity into ''Swiss cheese''. It is highly likely that Alberta sep…

[dead]

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#186

Post by harwoodr »

It has been my experience that people always seem to want simple solutions to complex problems.

The result is that the details of how complex those problems are get ignored or their impact is represented in a diminished way.

In this case currency, debt, indigenous rights/claims and existing legislation are some examples of what is being glossed over and ignored.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#187

Post by GardenLetter27 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68
nonethewiser wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mini brexit? A province seceding from Canada is way bigger than the UK leaving the EU.

> A province seceding from Canada is way bigger than the UK leaving the EU Genuinely debatable. The total economic destruction of Brexit has been far higher than anything Alberta would suffer. And geopolitically, Alberta wouldn’t take itself off the table the way the English have basically rendered the UK irrelevant.

What? The UK is doing better economically than Germany right now.

And better than anywhere in Europe for Tech with Deepmind and Ineffable Intelligence there.

It still shares many of the same mistakes as Europe though - e.g. now having to buy Russian oil and gas again instead of using the North Sea oil, not expanding nuclear power, rampant welfare and council housing corruption, etc.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#188

Post by reaperducer »

tokai wrote: post #73
SecretDreams wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's, sadly, been a significant uptick in self destructive voting tendencies for certain voting demographics as of late.

Mainly UK and her former colonies.

Mainly UK and her former colonies.

You might think this if the only language you can read is English.

Re: Alberta to hold referendum on whether to remain in Canada

#189

Post by gxt »

cf100clunk wrote: post #160
dismalaf wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quebec separatists were outraged at the thought of First Nations and pro-Federalist geographical areas turning their new entity into ''Swiss cheese''. It is highly likely that Alberta separatists would face the same challenges and take an equally dim view. This is complicated by the fact that First Nations themselves are highly stratified. They receive billions in dollars from the federal government with zero overs…

[flagged]

> Your comment is nothing more than a broad ethnic slur

Have you considered that it may not be an insult but legitimate criticism?

The official government stat is 1.05M FN members. They have been targeted by over 200B$ in federal wealth transfers alone excluding tax incentives, provincial and municipal funding since 2015. That's almost 20K$ per person per year, more than what most Canadians pay in taxes each year and yet many FN communities don't have running water.

I think to ask about potential corruption or at least gross mismanagement is absolutly legitimate.

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