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Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

kotaku.com

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Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#181

Post by Scaled »

Aurornis wrote: post #52
codedokode wrote: post #39

Why payment processors do it? Why people in America do not want to earn more money from commissions? Strong church lobby? Legal risks? I think its mostly religious groups who who are against adult content and sex, or there are other groups? Also this is why we should work to increase circulation of cryptocurrency. No stupid religious restrictions and stupid political sanctions. Also why PornHub and OnlyFans are immun…

Stripe (their payment process) will handle adult content payments. It puts the account into the high risk category due to the high rate of fraud in those categories. There's no actual evidence in the article that payment processors made them do it. They actually banned pornography long before this. They just updated the terms to clarify what counted as pornography. > Also this is why we should work to increase circul…

Just FYI, the high rate of fraud is FUD. I am in the field, have a very good chargeback rate, and still cannot secure card processing at fair terms. The processors I have spoken to know chargeback rates are low, but it's a rigged system designed to extract maximal revenue by middlemen.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#183

Post by epolanski »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #165
Aurornis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe (their payment process) will handle adult content payments. It puts the account into the high risk category due to the high rate of fraud in those categories. There's no actual evidence in the article that payment processors made them do it. They actually banned pornography long before this. They just updated the terms to clarify what counted as pornography. > Also this is why we should work to increase circul…

> because it doesn't allow chargebacks You can have chargebacks in crypto if the payment is scripted to allow chargebacks. It would be up to the merchant and the buyer on whether or not to allow that, and who would mediate the dispute.

How do you script a chargeback with Bitcoin payments?

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#184

Post by cryzinger »

joecool1029 wrote: post #177
bell-cot wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zelle is (in effect) a wire transfer - there is no "credit" (meaning "borrow now, pay later") for that law to apply.

To expand a little on this, Zelle and debit card transactions are covered under Regulation E: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/100... . So there’s a codified procedure for disputes, it’s just a little less consumer friendly.

Patio11 has a fantastic writeup on exactly this: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/regulation-e/

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#185

Post by mrguyorama »

Aurornis wrote: post #143
codedokode wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adult content purchases have another problem where purchasers often deny having made the purchase when their significant other finds it on the credit card statement. Shaggy's "It wasn't me" defense. Ridiculous. People who consume adult content could at least behave like adults.

Most of them do. It's a math problem: If a credit card processor takes 3% of the purchase price and the average purchase is small like a $10 item or a $5 monthly commitment, it doesn't take many disputes to blow up their business model. Disputes are costly because you have to pay humans to deal with paperwork and phone calls.

Why do you believe this?

They charge you a large fee for every chargeback. They get the full purchase price of the transaction back without any effort. It's automatic. Meanwhile your merchant fee per transaction is directly tied to how many chargebacks you produce.

Chargebacks do not cost the payment network any money at all. All cost is borne by the merchants. That's the whole point. That's why chargebacks are effective: Because the payment network is an all powerful authority in the matter and has no incentive to deny chargebacks.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#186

Post by Scaled »

legitster wrote: post #82
codedokode wrote: post #39

Why payment processors do it? Why people in America do not want to earn more money from commissions? Strong church lobby? Legal risks? I think its mostly religious groups who who are against adult content and sex, or there are other groups? Also this is why we should work to increase circulation of cryptocurrency. No stupid religious restrictions and stupid political sanctions. Also why PornHub and OnlyFans are immun…

I don't think it's so much a religious lobbying thing as it is a consent and liability thing. If you're a processor (payment or otherwise), you have to be absolutely sure there's no CP or non-consensual content on there. The penalty for even one thing to slip through is damning, and they're under extreme pressure to be the gatekeeper on all of this. That means you have to manually review everything. That means paying…

They're also attacking games and artwork -- gotta make sure those pixels consent, too. Sigh...

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#187

Post by epolanski »

btown wrote: post #20
schnebbau wrote: post #3

So who is pressuring the processors?

The actual answer: hedge fund manager Bill Ackman. https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/2bswuu1nfc040h... & https://finance.yahoo.com/news/visa-suspends-payments-for-ad... > But he was friendly with Mastercard’s then-CEO Ajay Banga, whom he had met through a mutual friend. Ackman texted Banga, providing a link to Kristof’s story with his tweet: “Amex, VISA and MasterCard should immediately withhold payments…

There isn't a single anti semitic comment in your replies, mind to link it?

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#188

Post by dragonwriter »

Aspos wrote: post #25

There should be a national payment processing operator as an alternative to VISA/MC. Just like they do it in many other countries.

A national public payment processor in the US would not be more immune to political pressure from religious moralist groups than a duopoly of private processors.

For evidence see, well, all the other institutions of the US federal government.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#189

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

Scaled wrote: post #181
Aurornis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe (their payment process) will handle adult content payments. It puts the account into the high risk category due to the high rate of fraud in those categories. There's no actual evidence in the article that payment processors made them do it. They actually banned pornography long before this. They just updated the terms to clarify what counted as pornography. > Also this is why we should work to increase circul…

Just FYI, the high rate of fraud is FUD. I am in the field, have a very good chargeback rate, and still cannot secure card processing at fair terms. The processors I have spoken to know chargeback rates are low, but it's a rigged system designed to extract maximal revenue by middlemen.

A country with sane policy would consider payment processing to be infrastructure every bit as much as bridges or airports or an electrical grid. Any country even dabbling with the idea of becoming cashless should have to consider it that.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#190

Post by miki123211 »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #165
Aurornis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe (their payment process) will handle adult content payments. It puts the account into the high risk category due to the high rate of fraud in those categories. There's no actual evidence in the article that payment processors made them do it. They actually banned pornography long before this. They just updated the terms to clarify what counted as pornography. > Also this is why we should work to increase circul…

> because it doesn't allow chargebacks You can have chargebacks in crypto if the payment is scripted to allow chargebacks. It would be up to the merchant and the buyer on whether or not to allow that, and who would mediate the dispute.

And unlike in trad fi, you can have the dispute mediator / escrow manager / trustee be physically limited in what they can do with the money.

Visa can run away with your unclaimed payouts (if forced to do so by law enforcement for example). This doesn't have to be true in crypto; you can set things up so that the third party can either release the money to the payee or send it back to the payer, without giving them the capability to send it to some arbitrary address of their choosing.

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