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Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

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Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#181

Post by nrjames »

khafra wrote: post #165
titanomachy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do old people not have air conditioning because the law prohibits it? I thought it was more that air conditioners are expensive, old people in Europe are often somewhat poor and on fixed incomes, and a lot of historically temperate places in Europe have no tradition of AC. Certainly a lot of the young wealthy people I know in Europe have AC, even outside of the really hot places.

The death toll per heat wave can easily hit 5 figures in just france. A hybrid portable-minisplit that will cool a 100m^2 apartment is under a thousand euros, and draw just under a Mwh per year. A portable to cool one small bedroom is much less power-efficient, but can often be found between 200 and 300. That's not cheap , per se, but funerals aren't much less expensive in Europe than in America. Many EU countries al…

Paris is working on some type of underground cooled-water network for AC in industrial settings.

https://56paris.com/en/cooling-paris-from-below-the-city-s-u...

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#182

Post by dyauspitr »

boshomi wrote: post #78
ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Nuclear power has been killed off by economic forces; there’s no turning back. Solar and wind power generate cheap electricity in abundance, and midday electricity prices in Europe regularly dip into negative territory (as low as minus €500 (sic!) on May 1!). Modern grids do not require high-risk investments in ultra-inert baseload power that ultimately fails to find a market; instead, they require low-risk investmen…

Then why are China and India building so much nuclear?

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#183

Post by titanomachy »

ecshafer wrote: post #178
khafra wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death toll per heat wave can easily hit 5 figures in just france. A hybrid portable-minisplit that will cool a 100m^2 apartment is under a thousand euros, and draw just under a Mwh per year. A portable to cool one small bedroom is much less power-efficient, but can often be found between 200 and 300. That's not cheap , per se, but funerals aren't much less expensive in Europe than in America. Many EU countries al…

Why are ACs so expensive in Europe? A window AC can be had from Walmart for like $120.

Mini-splits are more complicated than window ACs, they allow the indoor and outdoor components to be separated.

Most European homes don't have the kind of window that you could stick an AC in, the windows hinge rather than sliding up and down. You can get one of those floor units with a hose for probably ~€300 though.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#184

Post by racl101 »

KKOSer wrote: post #61
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great story. Had no idea. Still love the name Uwe. One of those German names that doesn’t have an English equivalent unlike, say, Pieter.

I was told once Hugh is the nearest equivalent to Uwe, but i can't tell if thats correct.

In Spanish our Hughs are Hugos

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#185

Post by varjag »

mgfist wrote: post #171
varjag wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus had markedly increased general cancer rate post-1986. At the time most of that was fatal. None of that naturally is included in site personnel and firefighter fatalities that IAEA recognises as the only casualties. When I was a student I met a Chernobyl liquidator in his 30s on a local train. He said he was dying of leukaemia and looked like it. As a thought experiment, how would you argue to him that his dea…

Those numbers are still in the single digit thousands. Meanwhile how many deaths have been caused by fossil fuel emissions (both carbon, and local, and radiation). Very very hard to predict, but you see estimates going up to the many millions.

Would you argue that Bhopal was a nothingburger because it is dwarfed by residual emissions worldwide over decades?

These are consequences from single incident, for a power source that has minuscule share of generation worldwide. The second similar event had also led to exclusion of substantial territory and only avoided massive health effects due to wind pattern towards the ocean.

And if nuclear proliferated more to geography prone to low safety culture and warfare the toll could up considerably.

Either way nobody argues for replacement of nuclear with coal in this day of age. Renewables are the fastest growing energy sector.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#186

Post by titanomachy »

khafra wrote: post #165
titanomachy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do old people not have air conditioning because the law prohibits it? I thought it was more that air conditioners are expensive, old people in Europe are often somewhat poor and on fixed incomes, and a lot of historically temperate places in Europe have no tradition of AC. Certainly a lot of the young wealthy people I know in Europe have AC, even outside of the really hot places.

The death toll per heat wave can easily hit 5 figures in just france. A hybrid portable-minisplit that will cool a 100m^2 apartment is under a thousand euros, and draw just under a Mwh per year. A portable to cool one small bedroom is much less power-efficient, but can often be found between 200 and 300. That's not cheap , per se, but funerals aren't much less expensive in Europe than in America. Many EU countries al…

Yeah, it makes sense to get it and they'll have it eventually. It's a cultural shift as much as anything, it will take time.

The cooler parts of the US (e.g. the PNW) are also gradually increasing AC adoption as things heat up, but 20 years ago it was pretty much unheard of.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#187

Post by mgfist »

varjag wrote: post #185
mgfist wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers are still in the single digit thousands. Meanwhile how many deaths have been caused by fossil fuel emissions (both carbon, and local, and radiation). Very very hard to predict, but you see estimates going up to the many millions.

Would you argue that Bhopal was a nothingburger because it is dwarfed by residual emissions worldwide over decades? These are consequences from single incident, for a power source that has minuscule share of generation worldwide. The second similar event had also led to exclusion of substantial territory and only avoided massive health effects due to wind pattern towards the ocean. And if nuclear proliferated more to…

Bhopal helps my argument. The consequences of that were far worse than Chernobyl and yet I’d bet for every 1,000 people who have heard of Chernobyl only one or two would know about Bhopal.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#188

Post by varjag »

mgfist wrote: post #187
varjag wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you argue that Bhopal was a nothingburger because it is dwarfed by residual emissions worldwide over decades? These are consequences from single incident, for a power source that has minuscule share of generation worldwide. The second similar event had also led to exclusion of substantial territory and only avoided massive health effects due to wind pattern towards the ocean. And if nuclear proliferated more to…

Bhopal helps my argument. The consequences of that were far worse than Chernobyl and yet I’d bet for every 1,000 people who have heard of Chernobyl only one or two would know about Bhopal.

I'm not sure how that matters even if it was true. Here I am clearly aware of both. And if I were not, does it make people less dead?

If nuclear became #1 power source and instead of 25 year cadence we had IAEA scale 7 events every 1.5 years, would you still argue it's a net win?

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#189

Post by butlike »

mejutoco wrote: post #53
kev009 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hidden danger of coal is ironically the radioactivity of its waste, which gets put into concrete products and contribute to indoor air quality issues. The paranoia around nuclear power is tied to generational fear mongering of governments during the Cold War. The oddest part is why not use safer reactor designs; water reactors make sense for the US Navy and not on land.

> The paranoia around nuclear power is tied to generational fear mongering of governments during the Cold War And Chernobyl. And Fukushima. Nuclear is great but it has some very real risks

Nuclear won't be ready until fusion (so if ever). The only safe nuclear is when the byproduct is helium

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#190

Post by amanaplanacanal »

tekla wrote: post #159
happymellon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and a lot of what they say is deeply conspiratorial conservative rhetoric. They may be self described liberal, but their actions certainly aren't.

Its so fucking wild to see how fast the winds change. And since its inconveniently politically incorrect, history rewrites or "they were actually the opposite of us and lying" Anti-Vax people are/were seen the leftist idiots who were anti-capitalist, anti-corpo, anti-the fascist govt, who would rather have died of preventable diseases than perpetuate the medical industry and its capitalist schemes trying to keep us s…

When antivax was a lefty thing, it was a tiny percentage. The most wacky on the left always get the most airplay for some reason, making their views seem more mainstream than they really are.

Since antivax is now popular on the right, it has grown into a much larger proportion of the populace. It doesn't help that they now have positions in government.

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