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EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

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Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#181

Post by LPisGood »

mrits wrote: post #133
jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

[flagged]

Is any form of government regulation of corporate actions fascism in your view?

Where is the line drawn?

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#182

Post by palata »

eowln wrote: post #176
soco wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two ongoing implementations: one weaker in the EU boooo and one good in Switzerland. None having severe issues. Questions?

I have none, I already am aware of the functioning of the systems that have been deployed, hence my statements of fact.

You obviously have no idea, and this really looks like a new account made for trolling (negative karma).

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#183

Post by zombot »

afavour wrote: post #154
Aurornis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely wild that we’re seeing proposals to shut down parts of the internet and regulate when people can talk to each other on social platforms as a real suggestion on HN. I feel like we’ve completely lost the plot when we’re starting to invite government partial Internet shutdowns as a good idea. This is a totalitarian government play.

I think it speaks to the complete lack of government regulation in the area that people see such extreme answers as positive. If any government had seen fit to engage in light regulation of what social media can do people might be happier.

Light regulation won't cut it any more for companies that are too big to jail.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#184

Post by SirMaster »

wackget wrote: post #148
jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

The modern-day cigarette is such a perfect metaphor for social media. A cabal of unfathomably wealthy companies spreading their harmful products across the world; making them as addictive as possible while actively burying the research which proves how harmful they are. I truly hope one day we'll look back on social media and smartphone use the same way we regard smoking.

But if you stop using social media, you don't still have a risk of lung cancer in the future.

The effects of social media usage are surely reversible by stopping using it and then some retraining of the brain.

The effects of years of smoking are not so reversible in terms of what it does to your body.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#185

Post by ambicapter »

kyledrake wrote: post #173
akersten wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side of the view is "information is real and I don't like some of it ("it's harmful/addictive/blasphemous") so it must be controlled and regulated." I don't think it's an odd thing to be opposed to that line of thinking.

People in here are casually linking social media to cigarettes, a product that kills half its users , and in previous iterations I've seen people compare social media to using heroin. It's completely hysterical. I expect tabloid journalists and grandstanding politicians to do this, it really scares me when HN users that should know better do it.

This sounds like a "depression isn't real" and "if you're addicted, just stop" type of comment.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#186

Post by pembrook »

jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

Glad to hear a false comparison to something that's actually physically/chemically addictive really resonated with you (a.k.a. affirmed your already existing beliefs in this moral panic).

If we step back and look at this rationally though, can anybody point me to any peer reviewed studies (the actual studies, not clickbait articles written based off the studies) showing that social media is anywhere near as physically harmful or addictive as cigarettes?

I'm totally open to the idea that engagement algorithms are inflaming social division. I'm less convinced that the children are the ones being harmed however. I think its the adults who grew up in a media mono-culture where the default was trust are the ones more susceptible to negative outcomes.

When things change, the young are the ones more likely to adapt.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#187

Post by mrits »

LPisGood wrote: post #181
mrits wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is any form of government regulation of corporate actions fascism in your view? Where is the line drawn?

This is a clear line and we fought Europe already over this in the last century. There is absolutely no world where we need a group of people telling us how long we are allowed to be on TikTok. It is inexcusable to think this way in a free democracy.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#188

Post by zombot »

Aurornis wrote: post #120
criddell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the radio I heard a reporter talking about things China does during school exams. Apparently all schools have exams at the same time and during that period, social media shuts down at night. I forget the exact hours (10pm - 6am maybe). I'm starting to think that would be a great policy in general for everybody. I think they also said AI companies go offline during exam hours, but I may have got that wrong.

Absolutely wild that we’re seeing proposals to shut down parts of the internet and regulate when people can talk to each other on social platforms as a real suggestion on HN. I feel like we’ve completely lost the plot when we’re starting to invite government partial Internet shutdowns as a good idea. This is a totalitarian government play.

But it's kind of a logical, if misguided, consequence of regulators being completely corrupt and letting those feudal lords do whatever the hell they want.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#189

Post by xigoi »

hug wrote: post #96
noprocrasted wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what is the first video you show them Whatever is latest posted across their followings/subscriptions?

That’s also an algorithm. An unsophisticated one, but an algorithm nonetheless. You can (and should) argue that such a simple algorithm doesn’t “count”, but fundamentally the exact wording of the grandparent post never works, legislatively. Lawyers will lawyer.

It’s not about whether there is an algorithm, but whether it’s controlled by the user.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#190

Post by mrighele »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #62
conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

So the user opens the app - what is the first video you show them? How does 'the user decide' from the millions upon millions of videos there are? If the user can search like in Youtube then how do you rank the results? That's also an algorithm. It isn't pretty easy to solve at all.

> If the user can search like in Youtube then how do you rank the results? That's also an algorithm.

Any ordering is an algorithm technically, so yes just "banning algorithm" doesn't work.

A better alternative could be "the algorithm must be public and reproducible by the user".

"Sort the posts of the people I follow in chronological order" you're good

"Sort the posts by the output of a blackbox trained on user data" too bad you're a publisher and are responsible for what people post.

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